From: "David Schwartz" <davids@webmaster.com>
To: "Linux-Kernel@Vger. Kernel. Org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: RE: GPL vs non-GPL device drivers
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 05:27:12 -0800 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <MDEHLPKNGKAHNMBLJOLKAEJLBKAC.davids@webmaster.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <orire1s39s.fsf@free.oliva.athome.lsd.ic.unicamp.br>
(combined responses)
> On Feb 17, 2007, "David Schwartz" <davids@webmaster.com> wrote:
>
> >> Linking with kernel exported symbols in a kernel module is by many
> >> people considered creating a work derived from the kernel.
> > That's simply unreasonable. It is the most clear settled law that only a
> > creative process can create a work for copyright purposes. Linking is an
> > automated process, not a creative process. It cannot create a
> > work at all,
> > much less a derivative work.
> Per this principle, it would seem that only source code and
> hand-crafted object code would be governed by copyright, since
> compilation is also an automated process.
You misunderstand what I'm saying. If you have two works, A and B, and
neither is a derivative work of the other, linking the two of them together
does not create a new work, so it cannot create a derivative work. The
result still could be work A or work B (or both of them).
If you make a copy of a disk, you have not created a new work. However, the
result of that copy is still the original work.
As a more accurate example, suppose I take a DVD of The Phantom Menace and
convert it to AVI format. The result is not a new work for copyright
purposes, it's just The Phantom Menace. If I take The Phantom Menace and The
Big Lebowski and put them in a program that alternates frames, the result is
not a new work (unless you can argue there was some creativity in choosing
to combine those two works) but is simply The Big Lebowski and The Phanton
Menace, just as if I had put the two DVDs in one box.
> > If you have two works, A and B, and neither is a derivative work of the
> > other, linking them together cannot change the status of A or B.
> IANAL, but I understand this is correct. However, the output is
> probably a derivative work of both.
That cannot be, because the output is not a new work. Only a creative
process can create a new work.
> Also, it's the fact that A needs to be linked with B, or vice-versa,
> that's a clue that A is likely to be a derived work from B, or
> vice-versa, even before they're linked together.
Correct. That is a separate argument that certainly might be reasonable
under some circumstances. We're dealing with two seprate arguments here, one
reasonable and one unreasonable. The reasonable one (though I think it's
incorrect here) that if you use EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL symbols, your code likely
has so much knowledge of (and code from) the Linux kernel that it must be a
derivative work. The unreasonable one is that linking creates a derivative
work. No automated process can create a new work for copyright purposes.
And on to the other argument:
> So, since there's no other way to do Yesterday, exactly as performed
> by the Beatles in the 1965 album Help!, I'm free to copy it, perform
> it, create derived versions thereof and perform them, without paying
> royalties to the current copyright holders?
I disagree with the premise, but even assuming it were true, the answer is
no. First, you cannot compare functional works to non-functional works in
this context because this exception is specifically about functional works.
But second, the premise is wrong.
You are correct that there is no other way to express this idea this way.
But that is always true of any work. However, there are other ways to
express the same idea. (Not precisely the same. Arguably if you change the
name of Romeo to Robert and leave everything else in Romeo and Juliet the
same, it's a different idea.) I agree that this distinction (between an idea
and an expression) is not always perfectly clear in copyright, but these are
two cases where it *is* clear.
> One could always create a clean-room implementation of kernel headers
> and use them to build a module that presumably wouldn't be a derived
> work, as long as the binary is indeed created using these clean-room
> headers. But who does that, considering how quickly kernel headers
> change, and that if you build the object code using the actual kernel
> headers, then the binary is likely to be a derived work of the kernel,
> even if the sources still aren't?
The fact that this is impractical and it's the only other way to accomplish
the same function proves that you don't need to do it. Copyright does not
allow you to own every practical way to achieve a function or even express
an idea.
DS
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2007-02-17 13:27 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 255+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <9b3a62ab0702142115m4ea7d2c0m6869eb64ef3ee14e@mail.gmail.com>
2007-02-15 5:16 ` v j
[not found] ` <75b66ecd0702142130x64824694ieee1869d0d70ab15@mail.gmail.com>
2007-02-15 5:38 ` v j
2007-02-15 5:47 ` Trent Waddington
[not found] ` <9b3a62ab0702142214p5c33a02am7e783c59ae0a64f1@mail.gmail.com>
2007-02-15 6:16 ` v j
2007-02-15 12:45 ` Neil Horman
2007-02-15 6:35 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-15 6:46 ` v j
2007-02-15 6:56 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-15 7:32 ` Dave Jones
2007-02-15 9:44 ` Jeff Garzik
2007-02-15 10:50 ` Dave Jones
2007-02-15 14:24 ` Jan De Luyck
2007-02-15 14:37 ` Benny Amorsen
2007-02-15 14:47 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-15 17:49 ` Jan Knutar
2007-02-15 7:55 ` Neil Brown
2007-02-15 14:45 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-15 20:21 ` Chris Snook
2007-02-15 22:34 ` Jeff Garzik
2007-02-16 4:20 ` Alexandre Oliva
2007-02-15 6:11 ` Dave Jones
2007-02-15 6:27 ` v j
2007-02-15 6:43 ` Neil Brown
2007-02-15 6:55 ` v j
2007-02-15 7:02 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-15 7:09 ` v j
2007-02-15 7:18 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-15 7:30 ` Neil Brown
2007-02-15 11:52 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-02-15 7:11 ` Randy Dunlap
2007-02-15 7:28 ` v j
2007-02-15 7:43 ` Neil Brown
2007-02-15 7:53 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-15 8:11 ` Neil Brown
2007-02-15 8:35 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-15 20:56 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-15 21:51 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-16 0:38 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-16 12:53 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-02-17 2:42 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-17 8:29 ` Neil Brown
2007-02-18 2:55 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-18 3:26 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-18 6:56 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-18 7:20 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-18 8:54 ` Oleg Verych
2007-02-18 23:42 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-18 13:57 ` Theodore Tso
2007-02-18 21:16 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-18 1:26 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-18 1:28 ` David Lang
2007-02-18 1:51 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-19 17:48 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-19 20:55 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-19 21:53 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-19 22:26 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-19 22:48 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-19 22:58 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-19 23:18 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-19 23:26 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-20 0:28 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-20 0:36 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-20 0:50 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-20 0:55 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-20 0:58 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-20 1:00 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-20 7:48 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-20 8:24 ` v j
2007-02-20 9:01 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-20 1:29 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-20 5:19 ` v j
2007-02-20 10:54 ` Nick Piggin
2007-02-20 11:00 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-20 15:14 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2007-02-20 15:39 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-20 14:36 ` Helge Hafting
2007-02-20 20:30 ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2007-02-21 12:45 ` Helge Hafting
2007-02-21 22:08 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-21 23:30 ` Nuno Silva
2007-02-22 0:26 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-21 23:34 ` David Lang
2007-02-22 0:28 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22 1:30 ` D. Hazelton
2007-02-22 2:05 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22 4:17 ` D. Hazelton
2007-02-22 4:24 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-22 6:12 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22 9:28 ` Jon K Hellan
2007-02-22 16:45 ` Theodore Tso
2007-02-22 20:30 ` D. Hazelton
2007-02-25 0:59 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-02-22 14:14 ` Alan
2007-02-22 22:42 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-23 0:18 ` Alan
2007-02-23 1:12 ` Randy Dunlap
2007-02-23 1:21 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22 14:10 ` Alan
2007-02-22 21:36 ` D. Hazelton
2007-02-22 22:28 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-25 10:42 ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-25 11:33 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-25 19:39 ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-26 0:47 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-26 1:54 ` D. Hazelton
2007-02-25 11:54 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-25 13:52 ` Alan
2007-02-25 14:21 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-25 19:10 ` Alan
2007-02-26 10:16 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-26 14:12 ` Alan
2007-02-25 22:27 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-26 10:17 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-25 20:15 ` D. Hazelton
2007-02-25 17:56 ` Stephen Clark
2007-02-19 22:47 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-15 13:09 ` Jan Engelhardt
2007-02-15 8:12 ` Nick Piggin
2007-02-15 10:01 ` Xavier Bestel
2007-02-15 10:51 ` Mohammed Gamal
2007-02-15 11:00 ` Xavier Bestel
2007-02-15 11:05 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-15 11:17 ` Dave Jones
2007-02-15 11:15 ` Dave Jones
2007-02-15 11:35 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-15 13:14 ` Jan Engelhardt
2007-02-15 14:43 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-15 16:22 ` Stuart MacDonald
2007-02-16 0:36 ` Scott Preece
2007-02-16 9:44 ` Xavier Bestel
2007-02-16 9:58 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-15 7:24 ` Dave Jones
2007-02-15 9:54 ` Xavier Bestel
2007-02-15 14:14 ` Neil Horman
2007-02-15 14:43 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-15 16:25 ` Rik van Riel
2007-02-15 16:53 ` Theodore Tso
2007-02-15 18:20 ` v j
2007-02-15 18:41 ` Josh Boyer
2007-02-16 15:34 ` Lennart Sorensen
2007-02-15 18:58 ` Xavier Bestel
2007-02-15 19:02 ` Miguel Ojeda
2007-02-16 1:12 ` Scott Preece
2007-02-16 1:14 ` David Lang
2007-02-16 5:48 ` v j
2007-02-16 5:57 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-16 6:25 ` v j
2007-02-16 6:40 ` Miguel Ojeda
2007-02-16 6:45 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-16 9:16 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-16 10:00 ` Joshua Simmons
2007-02-16 11:42 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-16 11:51 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-16 13:29 ` Joshua Simmons
2007-02-17 2:42 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-17 6:44 ` Alexandre Oliva
2007-02-17 7:26 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2007-02-16 10:35 ` Richard Knutsson
2007-02-16 17:12 ` Dave Neuer
2007-02-16 21:26 ` Scott Preece
2007-02-18 17:08 ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-17 2:42 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-17 10:46 ` Giuseppe Bilotta
2007-02-17 14:19 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-17 23:30 ` Giuseppe Bilotta
2007-02-17 23:55 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-18 9:00 ` Giuseppe Bilotta
2007-02-19 17:53 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-18 5:15 ` Alexandre Oliva
2007-02-17 22:18 ` Dave Neuer
2007-02-17 23:04 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-17 23:04 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-16 9:52 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2007-02-16 13:44 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-16 10:30 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2007-02-16 10:38 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-16 14:04 ` Neil Horman
2007-02-16 14:14 ` Jesper Juhl
2007-02-17 2:59 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-17 6:32 ` Alexandre Oliva
2007-02-17 13:27 ` David Schwartz [this message]
2007-02-17 19:29 ` Scott Preece
2007-02-17 21:15 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-19 20:31 ` Alan
2007-02-19 20:20 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-19 20:48 ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2007-02-19 21:50 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-19 22:12 ` Michael Dreher
2007-02-17 21:21 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-18 4:38 ` Alexandre Oliva
2007-02-16 15:40 ` Lennart Sorensen
2007-02-16 9:12 ` Xavier Bestel
2007-02-16 9:44 ` Jon K Hellan
2007-02-16 11:41 ` Jan Engelhardt
2007-02-16 6:46 ` Miguel Ojeda
2007-02-15 19:27 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2007-02-16 1:24 ` Scott Preece
2007-02-15 22:21 ` Jeff Garzik
2007-02-16 0:04 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-16 0:37 ` Jeff Garzik
2007-02-16 2:09 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-16 2:12 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-16 4:00 ` Alexandre Oliva
2007-02-16 5:16 ` Jeff Garzik
2007-02-16 5:57 ` Alexandre Oliva
2007-02-15 22:42 ` Gene Heskett
2007-02-16 1:48 ` Scott Preece
2007-02-17 4:03 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-17 4:19 ` Gene Heskett
[not found] ` <7b69d1470702151705h297c3b38g138eb0138b900aea@mail.gmail.com>
2007-02-16 2:00 ` v j
2007-02-16 6:07 ` Chris Friesen
2007-02-16 8:36 ` Martin Mares
2007-02-16 17:00 ` Matthew Frost
2007-02-16 17:52 ` Matthew Frost
2007-02-20 14:55 ` Helge Hafting
2007-02-16 0:10 ` Greg Trounson
2007-02-16 0:18 ` Lee Revell
2007-02-16 0:37 ` Greg Trounson
2007-02-16 1:58 ` Lee Revell
2007-02-16 0:58 ` Scott Preece
2007-02-18 16:42 ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-15 6:15 ` Neil Brown
2007-02-15 6:51 ` Gene Heskett
2007-02-15 6:23 ` Ben Nizette
2007-02-15 7:40 ` Nick Piggin
2007-02-15 20:56 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-15 21:53 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-15 22:41 ` Jeff Garzik
2007-02-15 23:20 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-15 7:36 ` Arjan van de Ven
2007-02-15 8:04 ` v j
2007-02-15 8:13 ` Arjan van de Ven
2007-02-15 8:17 ` Richard Knutsson
2007-02-15 8:40 ` v j
2007-02-15 19:36 ` Jörn Engel
2007-02-15 8:24 ` Nick Piggin
2007-02-15 11:52 ` Martin Mares
2007-02-16 4:13 ` Alexandre Oliva
2007-02-16 13:32 ` Lennart Sorensen
2007-02-15 11:54 ` Mws
2007-02-15 12:51 ` Manu Abraham
2007-02-15 14:32 ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2007-02-15 14:54 ` Manu Abraham
2007-02-16 8:19 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2007-02-16 9:25 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-16 15:33 ` Chris Friesen
2007-02-16 15:58 ` Scott Preece
2007-02-15 15:18 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-15 11:06 Ihar `Philips` Filipau
[not found] <7OHci-7fx-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <7OHci-7fx-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <7OJnQ-24B-19@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <7OJQP-2VO-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
2007-02-15 11:53 ` Bodo Eggert
[not found] ` <7OI8n-fp-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <7OIi9-tI-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <7OS7S-7tW-27@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <7OTx3-1tH-17@gated-at.bofh.it>
2007-02-15 23:40 ` Bodo Eggert
[not found] <fa.GPbYGi2HYDPl2WlRgsq2dPbD6cM@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.5t0XkAtEpB2nDYFPJKUBce9BKFE@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.upvZMIS42lj8Tbudh1OdnbDn+Ts@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.821rWTmf8FgAMnDeO7b6yeUeXYg@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.+3hIy95KSdtolNz5kNmm6qk4FU8@ifi.uio.no>
2007-02-15 23:31 ` Robert Hancock
2007-02-16 15:29 ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2007-02-16 23:08 ` Robert Hancock
2007-04-01 12:16 devzero
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