From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S968165AbXEHQQZ (ORCPT ); Tue, 8 May 2007 12:16:25 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S934891AbXEHQQY (ORCPT ); Tue, 8 May 2007 12:16:24 -0400 Received: from nic.NetDirect.CA ([216.16.235.2]:36593 "EHLO rubicon.netdirect.ca" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S934893AbXEHQQX (ORCPT ); Tue, 8 May 2007 12:16:23 -0400 X-Originating-Ip: 99.246.112.70 Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 12:14:33 -0400 (EDT) From: "Robert P. J. Day" X-X-Sender: rpjday@localhost.localdomain To: Adrian Bunk cc: Linux Kernel Mailing List Subject: Re: [PATCH][RFC] Create a top-level "Space-critical features" menu. In-Reply-To: <20070508085654.GG4226@stusta.de> Message-ID: References: <20070508085654.GG4226@stusta.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Net-Direct-Inc-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-Net-Direct-Inc-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Net-Direct-Inc-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (not cached, score=-36.8, required 5, autolearn=not spam, ALL_TRUSTED -1.80, BAYES_00 -15.00, INIT_RECVD_OUR_AUTH -20.00) X-Net-Direct-Inc-MailScanner-From: rpjday@mindspring.com Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Tue, 8 May 2007, Adrian Bunk wrote: > On Tue, May 08, 2007 at 04:06:30AM -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > > > i've always hated that lower-level menu under "General setup": > > > > Configure standard kernel features (for small systems) ---> > > > > which buries the choice of de-selecting features to save space one > > level down without really explaining what it's all about. so i just > > shifted all of that up to the top under what i think is a more > > meaningful name. > > > > this patch is also why i asked earlier why top-level menu entries > > have no "help" text -- because, in this case, it would be useful for > > someone looking at the config screen to see that choice and be able to > > ask, "hey, i wonder what *that's* all about", and get help along the > > lines of: > > > > "these features are normally selected but, if you're strapped for > > space, such as with embedded systems, you might consider turning some > > of them off. if space isn't an issue, you might as well just leave > > them as they are." (or something like that.) > >... > > I'm against it: > > I don't have numbers, but I'd expect the vast majority of people > building kernels to be people with low kernel knowledge building for > an i386/x86_64 system. i agree. but a number of people have already suggested that that lower-level menu "Configure standard kernel features (for small systems)" ---> is not well-designed. and the very people you're talking about will see that and not be quite sure what it represents. and they *certainly* won't realize that *not* selecting it will have consequences in other menus. that particular menu is confusing for a number of reasons: 1) it's badly named 2) it has no help to explain it 3) even if you don't select it, it will still have some sub-menu entries, which is non-intuitive 4) it's not at all clear that, if you don't select it, other possible config entries all over the source tree won't be available. > OTOH, people developing embedded systems are most likely more > familiar with kernel internals. i'm betting even embedded people might not understand what's going on there. it's particularly confusing since, if you choose that option, you will suddenly see a number of additional "small system" features you can turn off, but there's no indication that options all over the tree are suddenly becoming visible. note: i have no problem with some kind of overall, top-level option that does this sort of thing. i just don't think the current technique is the right way. in fact, i think it's awful, and i'd love to see it made more obvious. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA http://fsdev.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page ========================================================================