From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7E71C433EF for ; Sat, 21 May 2022 18:57:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1344952AbiEUSz7 (ORCPT ); Sat, 21 May 2022 14:55:59 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:43266 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S239958AbiEUSzz (ORCPT ); Sat, 21 May 2022 14:55:55 -0400 Received: from vps0.lunn.ch (vps0.lunn.ch [185.16.172.187]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5A65312746; Sat, 21 May 2022 11:55:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lunn.ch; s=20171124; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Disposition:Content-Type:MIME-Version: References:Message-ID:Subject:Cc:To:From:Date:From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject: Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Content-Disposition:In-Reply-To:References; bh=0m5otY5wLnd8qF1d6h93ahrmPx+pF7uBjOVxsQJ2omc=; b=6LlEkeuGubfneYezKRZlW95VW1 YXGM4aRO9RzuUhjToGV1N3ojHj9i3D+YinRTPRLRFgQTid+DGtGShtrSw/B2sUlLtueAGN0ocaXu3 BHyRs4EDNjr4wYcmsMAD3Pc0mBZQ79KZzhBGPrKINF5gOhVROADXaUWDTHQnOYZo3GfE=; Received: from andrew by vps0.lunn.ch with local (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1nsUGT-003nGs-Sy; Sat, 21 May 2022 20:55:49 +0200 Date: Sat, 21 May 2022 20:55:49 +0200 From: Andrew Lunn To: Kent Overstreet Cc: linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org, mcgrof@kernel.org, tytso@mit.edu Subject: Re: RFC: Ioctl v2 Message-ID: References: <20220520161652.rmhqlvwvfrvskg4w@moria.home.lan> <20220521164546.h7huckdwvguvmmyy@moria.home.lan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20220521164546.h7huckdwvguvmmyy@moria.home.lan> Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Sat, May 21, 2022 at 12:45:46PM -0400, Kent Overstreet wrote: > On Fri, May 20, 2022 at 10:31:02PM +0200, Andrew Lunn wrote: > > > I want to circulate this and get some comments and feedback, and if > > > no one raises any serious objections - I'd love to get collaborators > > > to work on this with me. Flame away! > > > > Hi Kent > > > > I doubt you will get much interest from netdev. netdev already > > considers ioctl as legacy, and mostly uses netlink and a message > > passing structure, which is easy to extend in a backwards compatible > > manor. > > The more I look at netlink the more I wonder what on earth it's targeted at or > was trying to solve. It must exist for a reason, but I've written a few ioctls > myself and I can't fathom a situation where I'd actually want any of the stuff > netlink provides. > > Why bother with getting a special socket type? Why asynchronous messages with > all the marshalling/unmarshalling that entails? Hi Kent It has its uses, but my main point was, it is unlikely netdev will buy into anything else. > >From what I've seen all we really want is driver private syscalls netdev is actually very opposed to private syscalls. Given the chance, each driver will define its own vendor specific APIs, there will be zero interoperability, you need vendor tools, the documentation will be missing etc. So netdev tries very hard to have well defined APIs which are vendor neutral to cover anything a driver, or the network stack, wants to do. Andrew