From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from casper.infradead.org (casper.infradead.org [90.155.50.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6ED074457C7; Tue, 11 Aug 2026 14:33:33 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=90.155.50.34 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1786458817; cv=none; b=hir6jigePknaA6KdDLuHv7890ip4g+2zPRyRMLjnWSQi6GrZwGAqECCey1nSzTU32cmE/aFACbgGjD7m+T7Kfm34QfY29z3oaY40jg8vNqpFAED6dDM/7mVBfr3n6g6FBEQJuEz/KaV3OQrKaU3ic2+E64Tk/+plzcjlo/1s3FA= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1786458817; c=relaxed/simple; bh=FAYxpQdIh+vJP1qsFeVnIiJhh0aBAnKwuv+RLgg9Zuw=; h=Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References: Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=u9tfgN6KP/RzmTGRSo94YibdDsnP6+0MGd3DJTsXU8cbscTYee5LiJD6o9ztQVZHxpyEEcj9nwlHW3Jr/CINIagolukRnWZAve0LANKVjSaaFvb6tlle937aO3O3lLzDAjcvPXWlIOoiRq+lEZlrk2kDATTizyg2zFgY2Anmx1A= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=infradead.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=casper.srs.infradead.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=infradead.org header.i=@infradead.org header.b=U8vD7xKK; arc=none smtp.client-ip=90.155.50.34 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=infradead.org Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=casper.srs.infradead.org Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=infradead.org header.i=@infradead.org header.b="U8vD7xKK" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infradead.org; s=casper.20170209; h=MIME-Version:Content-Type:References: In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description; bh=FAYxpQdIh+vJP1qsFeVnIiJhh0aBAnKwuv+RLgg9Zuw=; b=U8vD7xKKFSgWCCcsHaT6YYpER7 b6mvejgUsElDTeQgGV4lcYpP6dZSYhCXuCAxU0H71fVrdZnGbQJJWgcrHsdqjP+3QaQKg+hWaiW8s nUPt4Kq+MD3iTlTYKQrzpKvIHgFEAbmmpcNDDnrpo39jEjwHdM0OcskihzmpqzEfzjwxvSWHWkbWA ieYPp6qeko/MIHpjstW/kJreVHy/yfIL5XB9V5Ojemo0V1SwQ88Q9TAKYkC4HlG5OWPF8aj1V33jk atpJzQ5Cm6DzH8+oyYR91SPQlF9VLWG1KtO8WSXK3xhftBlMl+r+f21UCfGJdxvxPfJCql6Dd0NTc A2fOHN+g==; Received: from 54-240-197-235.amazon.com ([54.240.197.235] helo=u09cd745991455d.ant.amazon.com) by casper.infradead.org with esmtpsa (Exim 4.99.1 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1wtnXg-00000000Yjh-0aN6; Tue, 11 Aug 2026 14:33:24 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCH] mm/mmu_notifier: Remove non_block_start/end() from notifier invocation From: David Woodhouse To: Jason Gunthorpe Cc: Andrew Morton , David Hildenbrand , Lorenzo Stoakes , "Liam R. Howlett" , Vlastimil Babka , Mike Rapoport , Suren Baghdasaryan , Michal Hocko , Sebastian Andrzej Siewior , Clark Williams , Steven Rostedt , Simona Vetter , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=E9r=F4me?= Glisse , Christian =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6nig?= , "Paul E. McKenney" , Sean Christopherson , Paolo Bonzini , linux-mm@kvack.org, kvm@vger.kernel.org, linux-rt-devel@lists.linux.dev, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2026 15:33:18 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20260811142730.GG544626@ziepe.ca> References: <20260811135537.GC544626@ziepe.ca> <1d669aca4ffee797b9c29215382444a5b23624b3.camel@infradead.org> <20260811142730.GG544626@ziepe.ca> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="sha-256"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; boundary="=-g2qywzoOicc1Tl34UQiF" User-Agent: Evolution 3.60.3-0ubuntu1~ppa9~24.04 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-SRS-Rewrite: SMTP reverse-path rewritten from by casper.infradead.org. See http://www.infradead.org/rpr.html --=-g2qywzoOicc1Tl34UQiF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (Correcting Sean's email address) On Tue, 2026-08-11 at 11:27 -0300, Jason Gunthorpe wrote: > On Tue, Aug 11, 2026 at 03:21:35PM +0100, David Woodhouse wrote: > > > > =C2=A0- On PREEMPT_RT, spinning locks become sleeping locks, and pe= rfectly > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0 legitimate spinlock/rwlock usage in notifier implement= ations (e.g. > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0 KVM's mn_invalidate_lock and gfn_to_pfn_cache locks) t= riggers the > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0 splat despite having no allocator dependency whatsoeve= r. This is > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0 reproducible today on a PREEMPT_RT kernel: KVM takes > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0 kvm->mn_invalidate_lock in kvm_mmu_notifier_invalidate= _range_start(), > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0 and if the OOM reaper reaps a KVM process the result i= s a "BUG: > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0 sleeping function called from invalid context" from > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0 rt_spin_lock(). > > >=20 > > > I don't know anything about PREEEMPT_RT, but this seems like an issue > > > with RT if a traditionally atomic safe functions are now triggering > > > might sleep failures? > >=20 > > I can sympathise with that point of view. In fact I've spent the last > > couple of years mostly ignoring this "problem" and just blaming RT for > > doing exactly that, but I don't think we can really get away with it > > any more. > >=20 > > cf. https://lore.kernel.org/all/787aa26cf62dfd361eea8ed19f384fc51789250= 1.camel@infradead.org/ >=20 > If might_sleep doesn't work sanely at all in preempt_rt then just > globally turn it off? Turn might_sleep off? Or PREEMPT_RT? :) The RT maintainers are on this thread if you want to pick either of those fights... that was not the course of action I chose to take. > > > > =C2=A0- A notifier implementation may legitimately need to wait for= an RCU > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0 grace period before allowing the caller to proceed wit= h unmapping > > >=20 > > > That's not allowed. We really want to forbid that, it is not an > > > acceptable way to implement a driver using these APIs due to > > > performance. > >=20 > > Speak for yourself. For the KVM gfn-to-pfn-cache the performance scales > > *much* better with RCU than with explicit locking: > > https://lore.kernel.org/all/8f41cb82b7c99d5a3d1dda016e4841326b4d8a52.ca= mel@infradead.org/ >=20 > At the cost of completely destroying the mm shootdown performance with > 1s RCU grace period waits every mm operation. No thanks. I feel like we're not talking about the same things here. The KVM patch which this enables does *not* behave as you have described. Have you looked at it? Nobody's suggesting that we force any *other* MMU notifiers to do anything that they don't do today. --=-g2qywzoOicc1Tl34UQiF Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCCE8Ew ggWvMIIEl6ADAgECAhANkOKMSmGXhF5eMl0rsRhvMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBDAUAMGUxCzAJBgNVBAYT AlVTMRUwEwYDVQQKEwxEaWdpQ2VydCBJbmMxGTAXBgNVBAsTEHd3dy5kaWdpY2VydC5jb20xJDAi BgNVBAMTG0RpZ2lDZXJ0IEFzc3VyZWQgSUQgUm9vdCBHMjAeFw0yNDAzMTMwMDAwMDBaFw0zNDAz MTIyMzU5NTlaMGIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVTMRcwFQYDVQQKEw5EaWdpQ2VydCwgSW5jLjE6MDgGA1UE AxMxRGlnaUNlcnQgQXNzdXJlZCBHMiBTTUlNRSBSU0E0MDk2IFNIQTM4NCAyMDI0IENBMTCCAiIw DQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggIPADCCAgoCggIBAOfSIeC0vv1xPQ+dgSxbIIrkaru6skAWJYaGFzmv q4Kq+2wU2jxhcWlJg/JeP5jEkq/LM3pn5aaLao79j+XRmS7J1ZpJKUODJVoM4s9MQJhTMvo4qS5Z S64g6QR7Obkz3I1Lr3aWeSBmDDEyzue+NKtuWZ1Cxy3RdXo/w5HgRc3l2AercOM3Gt1XonTzEtTb 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