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(p200300cbc7081d0099ec96567475678d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [2003:cb:c708:1d00:99ec:9656:7475:678d]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p18-20020a05600c359200b0040b360cc65csm16657823wmq.0.2023.11.28.00.47.02 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 28 Nov 2023 00:47:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2023 09:47:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [RESEND PATCH v7 00/10] Small-sized THP for anonymous memory Content-Language: en-US To: Matthew Wilcox Cc: Ryan Roberts , Andrew Morton , Yin Fengwei , Yu Zhao , Catalin Marinas , Anshuman Khandual , Yang Shi , "Huang, Ying" , Zi Yan , Luis Chamberlain , Itaru Kitayama , "Kirill A. Shutemov" , John Hubbard , David Rientjes , Vlastimil Babka , Hugh Dickins , Kefeng Wang , linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org References: <20231122162950.3854897-1-ryan.roberts@arm.com> <9c8f6d2a-7ed8-45d2-9684-d77489bd99b8@redhat.com> <26c361bc-6d87-4a57-9fae-ef635c9039c7@redhat.com> From: David Hildenbrand Autocrypt: addr=david@redhat.com; keydata= xsFNBFXLn5EBEAC+zYvAFJxCBY9Tr1xZgcESmxVNI/0ffzE/ZQOiHJl6mGkmA1R7/uUpiCjJ dBrn+lhhOYjjNefFQou6478faXE6o2AhmebqT4KiQoUQFV4R7y1KMEKoSyy8hQaK1umALTdL QZLQMzNE74ap+GDK0wnacPQFpcG1AE9RMq3aeErY5tujekBS32jfC/7AnH7I0v1v1TbbK3Gp XNeiN4QroO+5qaSr0ID2sz5jtBLRb15RMre27E1ImpaIv2Jw8NJgW0k/D1RyKCwaTsgRdwuK Kx/Y91XuSBdz0uOyU/S8kM1+ag0wvsGlpBVxRR/xw/E8M7TEwuCZQArqqTCmkG6HGcXFT0V9 PXFNNgV5jXMQRwU0O/ztJIQqsE5LsUomE//bLwzj9IVsaQpKDqW6TAPjcdBDPLHvriq7kGjt WhVhdl0qEYB8lkBEU7V2Yb+SYhmhpDrti9Fq1EsmhiHSkxJcGREoMK/63r9WLZYI3+4W2rAc UucZa4OT27U5ZISjNg3Ev0rxU5UH2/pT4wJCfxwocmqaRr6UYmrtZmND89X0KigoFD/XSeVv jwBRNjPAubK9/k5NoRrYqztM9W6sJqrH8+UWZ1Idd/DdmogJh0gNC0+N42Za9yBRURfIdKSb B3JfpUqcWwE7vUaYrHG1nw54pLUoPG6sAA7Mehl3nd4pZUALHwARAQABzSREYXZpZCBIaWxk ZW5icmFuZCA8ZGF2aWRAcmVkaGF0LmNvbT7CwZgEEwEIAEICGwMGCwkIBwMCBhUIAgkKCwQW AgMBAh4BAheAAhkBFiEEG9nKrXNcTDpGDfzKTd4Q9wD/g1oFAl8Ox4kFCRKpKXgACgkQTd4Q 9wD/g1oHcA//a6Tj7SBNjFNM1iNhWUo1lxAja0lpSodSnB2g4FCZ4R61SBR4l/psBL73xktp rDHrx4aSpwkRP6Epu6mLvhlfjmkRG4OynJ5HG1gfv7RJJfnUdUM1z5kdS8JBrOhMJS2c/gPf wv1TGRq2XdMPnfY2o0CxRqpcLkx4vBODvJGl2mQyJF/gPepdDfcT8/PY9BJ7FL6Hrq1gnAo4 3Iv9qV0JiT2wmZciNyYQhmA1V6dyTRiQ4YAc31zOo2IM+xisPzeSHgw3ONY/XhYvfZ9r7W1l pNQdc2G+o4Di9NPFHQQhDw3YTRR1opJaTlRDzxYxzU6ZnUUBghxt9cwUWTpfCktkMZiPSDGd KgQBjnweV2jw9UOTxjb4LXqDjmSNkjDdQUOU69jGMUXgihvo4zhYcMX8F5gWdRtMR7DzW/YE BgVcyxNkMIXoY1aYj6npHYiNQesQlqjU6azjbH70/SXKM5tNRplgW8TNprMDuntdvV9wNkFs 9TyM02V5aWxFfI42+aivc4KEw69SE9KXwC7FSf5wXzuTot97N9Phj/Z3+jx443jo2NR34XgF 89cct7wJMjOF7bBefo0fPPZQuIma0Zym71cP61OP/i11ahNye6HGKfxGCOcs5wW9kRQEk8P9 M/k2wt3mt/fCQnuP/mWutNPt95w9wSsUyATLmtNrwccz63XOwU0EVcufkQEQAOfX3n0g0fZz Bgm/S2zF/kxQKCEKP8ID+Vz8sy2GpDvveBq4H2Y34XWsT1zLJdvqPI4af4ZSMxuerWjXbVWb T6d4odQIG0fKx4F8NccDqbgHeZRNajXeeJ3R7gAzvWvQNLz4piHrO/B4tf8svmRBL0ZB5P5A 2uhdwLU3NZuK22zpNn4is87BPWF8HhY0L5fafgDMOqnf4guJVJPYNPhUFzXUbPqOKOkL8ojk CXxkOFHAbjstSK5Ca3fKquY3rdX3DNo+EL7FvAiw1mUtS+5GeYE+RMnDCsVFm/C7kY8c2d0G NWkB9pJM5+mnIoFNxy7YBcldYATVeOHoY4LyaUWNnAvFYWp08dHWfZo9WCiJMuTfgtH9tc75 7QanMVdPt6fDK8UUXIBLQ2TWr/sQKE9xtFuEmoQGlE1l6bGaDnnMLcYu+Asp3kDT0w4zYGsx 5r6XQVRH4+5N6eHZiaeYtFOujp5n+pjBaQK7wUUjDilPQ5QMzIuCL4YjVoylWiBNknvQWBXS lQCWmavOT9sttGQXdPCC5ynI+1ymZC1ORZKANLnRAb0NH/UCzcsstw2TAkFnMEbo9Zu9w7Kv AxBQXWeXhJI9XQssfrf4Gusdqx8nPEpfOqCtbbwJMATbHyqLt7/oz/5deGuwxgb65pWIzufa N7eop7uh+6bezi+rugUI+w6DABEBAAHCwXwEGAEIACYCGwwWIQQb2cqtc1xMOkYN/MpN3hD3 AP+DWgUCXw7HsgUJEqkpoQAKCRBN3hD3AP+DWrrpD/4qS3dyVRxDcDHIlmguXjC1Q5tZTwNB boaBTPHSy/Nksu0eY7x6HfQJ3xajVH32Ms6t1trDQmPx2iP5+7iDsb7OKAb5eOS8h+BEBDeq 3ecsQDv0fFJOA9ag5O3LLNk+3x3q7e0uo06XMaY7UHS341ozXUUI7wC7iKfoUTv03iO9El5f XpNMx/YrIMduZ2+nd9Di7o5+KIwlb2mAB9sTNHdMrXesX8eBL6T9b+MZJk+mZuPxKNVfEQMQ a5SxUEADIPQTPNvBewdeI80yeOCrN+Zzwy/Mrx9EPeu59Y5vSJOx/z6OUImD/GhX7Xvkt3kq Er5KTrJz3++B6SH9pum9PuoE/k+nntJkNMmQpR4MCBaV/J9gIOPGodDKnjdng+mXliF3Ptu6 3oxc2RCyGzTlxyMwuc2U5Q7KtUNTdDe8T0uE+9b8BLMVQDDfJjqY0VVqSUwImzTDLX9S4g/8 kC4HRcclk8hpyhY2jKGluZO0awwTIMgVEzmTyBphDg/Gx7dZU1Xf8HFuE+UZ5UDHDTnwgv7E th6RC9+WrhDNspZ9fJjKWRbveQgUFCpe1sa77LAw+XFrKmBHXp9ZVIe90RMe2tRL06BGiRZr jPrnvUsUUsjRoRNJjKKA/REq+sAnhkNPPZ/NNMjaZ5b8Tovi8C0tmxiCHaQYqj7G2rgnT0kt WNyWQQ== Organization: Red Hat In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On 28.11.23 05:05, Matthew Wilcox wrote: > On Fri, Nov 24, 2023 at 06:34:10PM +0100, David Hildenbrand wrote: >> On 24.11.23 16:53, Matthew Wilcox wrote: >>>> * we already have PMD-sized "large anon folios" in THP >>> >>> Right, those are already accounted as THP, and that's what users expect. >>> If we're allocating 1024 x 64kB chunks of memory, the user won't be able >>> to distinguish that from 32 x 2MB chunks of memory, and yet the >>> performance profile for some applications will be very different. >> >> Very right, and because there will be a difference between 1024 x 64kB, 2048 >> x 32 kB and so forth, we need new memory stats either way. >> >> Ryan had some ideas on that, but currently, that's considered future work, >> just like it likely is for the pagecache as well and needs much more >> thoughts. >> >> Initially, the admin will have to enable all that for anon either way. It >> all boils down to one memory statistic for anon memory (AnonHugePages) . >> that's messed-up already. > > So we have FileHugePages which is very carefully only PMD-sized large > folios. If people start making AnonHugePages count non-PMD-sized > large folios, that's going to be inconsistent. Right, and that's why we decided to leave these counters alone for now and rather document that they only apply to PMD-sized THP for historical reasons. We'll want new stats either way. Hopefully we'll make it more future-proof this time. > >>> am objecting to the use of the term "small THP" on the grounds of >>> confusion and linguistic nonsense. >> >> Maybe that's the reason why FreeBSD calls them "medium-sized superpages", >> because "Medium-sized" seems to be more appropriate to express something "in >> between". > > I don't mind "medium" in the name. > >> So far I thought the reason was because they focused on 64k only. >> >> Never trust a German guy on naming suggestions. John has so far been my >> naming expert, so I'm hoping he can help. >> >> "Sub-pmd-sized THP" is just mouthful. But then, again, this is would just be >> a temporary name, and in the future THP will just naturally come in multiple >> sizes (and others here seem to agree on that). > > I do not. If we'd come to this fifteen years ago, maybe, but people now > have an understanding that THPs are necessarily PMD sized. Well, I still find people being confused about THP vs. hugetlb, so likely some confusion is unavoidable. :) In your other mail you write "Perhaps the problem is that people have turned "THP" into a thing in its own right." I think that's exactly the case, and I see how that can be confusing when spelling out THP and reading "small-huge: does it cancel out?". -- Cheers, David / dhildenb