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[80.187.83.189]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-426ce589a21sm383854f8f.23.2025.10.09.11.51.55 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 09 Oct 2025 11:51:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2025 20:51:54 +0200 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PATCH] Revert "mm, hugetlb: remove hugepages_treat_as_movable sysctl" To: Gregory Price , Michal Hocko Cc: linux-mm@kvack.org, corbet@lwn.net, muchun.song@linux.dev, osalvador@suse.de, akpm@linux-foundation.org, hannes@cmpxchg.org, laoar.shao@gmail.com, brauner@kernel.org, mclapinski@google.com, joel.granados@kernel.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Mel Gorman , Alexandru Moise <00moses.alexander00@gmail.com>, Mike Kravetz , David Rientjes References: <20251007214412.3832340-1-gourry@gourry.net> <402170e6-c49f-4d28-a010-eb253fc2f923@redhat.com> <271f9af4-695c-4aa5-9249-2d21ad3db76e@redhat.com> <83e33641-8c42-4341-8e6e-5c75d00f93b9@redhat.com> From: David Hildenbrand Content-Language: en-US Autocrypt: addr=david@redhat.com; keydata= xsFNBFXLn5EBEAC+zYvAFJxCBY9Tr1xZgcESmxVNI/0ffzE/ZQOiHJl6mGkmA1R7/uUpiCjJ dBrn+lhhOYjjNefFQou6478faXE6o2AhmebqT4KiQoUQFV4R7y1KMEKoSyy8hQaK1umALTdL QZLQMzNE74ap+GDK0wnacPQFpcG1AE9RMq3aeErY5tujekBS32jfC/7AnH7I0v1v1TbbK3Gp XNeiN4QroO+5qaSr0ID2sz5jtBLRb15RMre27E1ImpaIv2Jw8NJgW0k/D1RyKCwaTsgRdwuK Kx/Y91XuSBdz0uOyU/S8kM1+ag0wvsGlpBVxRR/xw/E8M7TEwuCZQArqqTCmkG6HGcXFT0V9 PXFNNgV5jXMQRwU0O/ztJIQqsE5LsUomE//bLwzj9IVsaQpKDqW6TAPjcdBDPLHvriq7kGjt WhVhdl0qEYB8lkBEU7V2Yb+SYhmhpDrti9Fq1EsmhiHSkxJcGREoMK/63r9WLZYI3+4W2rAc UucZa4OT27U5ZISjNg3Ev0rxU5UH2/pT4wJCfxwocmqaRr6UYmrtZmND89X0KigoFD/XSeVv jwBRNjPAubK9/k5NoRrYqztM9W6sJqrH8+UWZ1Idd/DdmogJh0gNC0+N42Za9yBRURfIdKSb B3JfpUqcWwE7vUaYrHG1nw54pLUoPG6sAA7Mehl3nd4pZUALHwARAQABzSREYXZpZCBIaWxk ZW5icmFuZCA8ZGF2aWRAcmVkaGF0LmNvbT7CwZoEEwEIAEQCGwMCF4ACGQEFCwkIBwICIgIG FQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgcWIQQb2cqtc1xMOkYN/MpN3hD3AP+DWgUCaJzangUJJlgIpAAKCRBN 3hD3AP+DWhAxD/9wcL0A+2rtaAmutaKTfxhTP0b4AAp1r/eLxjrbfbCCmh4pqzBhmSX/4z11 opn2KqcOsueRF1t2ENLOWzQu3Roiny2HOU7DajqB4dm1BVMaXQya5ae2ghzlJN9SIoopTWlR 0Af3hPj5E2PYvQhlcqeoehKlBo9rROJv/rjmr2x0yOM8qeTroH/ZzNlCtJ56AsE6Tvl+r7cW 3x7/Jq5WvWeudKrhFh7/yQ7eRvHCjd9bBrZTlgAfiHmX9AnCCPRPpNGNedV9Yty2Jnxhfmbv Pw37LA/jef8zlCDyUh2KCU1xVEOWqg15o1RtTyGV1nXV2O/mfuQJud5vIgzBvHhypc3p6VZJ lEf8YmT+Ol5P7SfCs5/uGdWUYQEMqOlg6w9R4Pe8d+mk8KGvfE9/zTwGg0nRgKqlQXrWRERv cuEwQbridlPAoQHrFWtwpgYMXx2TaZ3sihcIPo9uU5eBs0rf4mOERY75SK+Ekayv2ucTfjxr Kf014py2aoRJHuvy85ee/zIyLmve5hngZTTe3Wg3TInT9UTFzTPhItam6dZ1xqdTGHZYGU0O otRHcwLGt470grdiob6PfVTXoHlBvkWRadMhSuG4RORCDpq89vu5QralFNIf3EysNohoFy2A LYg2/D53xbU/aa4DDzBb5b1Rkg/udO1gZocVQWrDh6I2K3+cCs7BTQRVy5+RARAA59fefSDR 9nMGCb9LbMX+TFAoIQo/wgP5XPyzLYakO+94GrgfZjfhdaxPXMsl2+o8jhp/hlIzG56taNdt VZtPp3ih1AgbR8rHgXw1xwOpuAd5lE1qNd54ndHuADO9a9A0vPimIes78Hi1/yy+ZEEvRkHk /kDa6F3AtTc1m4rbbOk2fiKzzsE9YXweFjQvl9p+AMw6qd/iC4lUk9g0+FQXNdRs+o4o6Qvy iOQJfGQ4UcBuOy1IrkJrd8qq5jet1fcM2j4QvsW8CLDWZS1L7kZ5gT5EycMKxUWb8LuRjxzZ 3QY1aQH2kkzn6acigU3HLtgFyV1gBNV44ehjgvJpRY2cC8VhanTx0dZ9mj1YKIky5N+C0f21 zvntBqcxV0+3p8MrxRRcgEtDZNav+xAoT3G0W4SahAaUTWXpsZoOecwtxi74CyneQNPTDjNg azHmvpdBVEfj7k3p4dmJp5i0U66Onmf6mMFpArvBRSMOKU9DlAzMi4IvhiNWjKVaIE2Se9BY FdKVAJaZq85P2y20ZBd08ILnKcj7XKZkLU5FkoA0udEBvQ0f9QLNyyy3DZMCQWcwRuj1m73D sq8DEFBdZ5eEkj1dCyx+t/ga6x2rHyc8Sl86oK1tvAkwBNsfKou3v+jP/l14a7DGBvrmlYjO 59o3t6inu6H7pt7OL6u6BQj7DoMAEQEAAcLBfAQYAQgAJgIbDBYhBBvZyq1zXEw6Rg38yk3e EPcA/4NaBQJonNqrBQkmWAihAAoJEE3eEPcA/4NaKtMQALAJ8PzprBEXbXcEXwDKQu+P/vts IfUb1UNMfMV76BicGa5NCZnJNQASDP/+bFg6O3gx5NbhHHPeaWz/VxlOmYHokHodOvtL0WCC 8A5PEP8tOk6029Z+J+xUcMrJClNVFpzVvOpb1lCbhjwAV465Hy+NUSbbUiRxdzNQtLtgZzOV Zw7jxUCs4UUZLQTCuBpFgb15bBxYZ/BL9MbzxPxvfUQIPbnzQMcqtpUs21CMK2PdfCh5c4gS sDci6D5/ZIBw94UQWmGpM/O1ilGXde2ZzzGYl64glmccD8e87OnEgKnH3FbnJnT4iJchtSvx yJNi1+t0+qDti4m88+/9IuPqCKb6Stl+s2dnLtJNrjXBGJtsQG/sRpqsJz5x1/2nPJSRMsx9 5YfqbdrJSOFXDzZ8/r82HgQEtUvlSXNaXCa95ez0UkOG7+bDm2b3s0XahBQeLVCH0mw3RAQg r7xDAYKIrAwfHHmMTnBQDPJwVqxJjVNr7yBic4yfzVWGCGNE4DnOW0vcIeoyhy9vnIa3w1uZ 3iyY2Nsd7JxfKu1PRhCGwXzRw5TlfEsoRI7V9A8isUCoqE2Dzh3FvYHVeX4Us+bRL/oqareJ CIFqgYMyvHj7Q06kTKmauOe4Nf0l0qEkIuIzfoLJ3qr5UyXc2hLtWyT9Ir+lYlX9efqh7mOY qIws/H2t In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 09.10.25 17:29, Gregory Price wrote: > On Thu, Oct 09, 2025 at 08:14:22AM +0200, Michal Hocko wrote: >> On Wed 08-10-25 12:31:22, Gregory Price wrote: >>>> I'm not quite clear yet on the use case, though. If all the user allocations >>>> end up fragmenting the memory, there is also not a lot of benefit to be had >>>> from that zone long term. >>>> >>> >>> The only real use case i've seen is exactly: >>> - Don't want random GFP_KERNEL to land there >>> - Might want it to be pinnable >>> >>> I think that covers what you've described above. >>> >>> But adding an entire zone felt a bit heavy handed. Allowing gigantic in >>> movable seemed less - immediately - offensive. >> >> The question is whether we need a full zone for that or we can control >> those allocation constrains on per memory block bases to override >> otherwise default. So it wouldn't be MOVABLE but rather something like >> USER zone. > > > Mild ignorance here - but I don't think the buddy allocator currently > differentiates chunks of memory based on block membership, it just eats > folios from certain zones/nodes. > > I'm scratching my head trying to think of the discrete mechanism to do > this that doesn't inject significantly more complexity into the buddy > allocator. > > Looking at the recent[1] THP support for ZONE_DEVICE, I wonder if we end > up with something more along these lines? But this aschews the other > requirement of wanting the memory to be otherwise general purpose. > > https://lore.kernel.org/linux-mm/20251001065707.920170-1-balbirs@nvidia.com/ > > ZONE_USER does feel like the most natural solution. Literally just > (ZONE_NORMAL - GFP_KERNEL). This might need a new GFP flag for certain > use cases like KVM (GFP_USER) to denote certain "This isn't technically > kernel memory, but it needs to be pinnable". That would slot right > between ZONE_NORMAL and ZONE_MOVABLE. > > Alternatively we could go the opposite way and introduce ZONE_KERNEL > below ZONE_NORMAL and disallow GFP_KERNEL from ZONE_NORMAL - then have > strict watermarks on ZONE_KERNEL to ensure the kernel is always able > to get memory. I'm afraid any new zone will be highly controversial and take a long time to get accepted, if ever :) The real question is: would we really need a system where we mix e.g., ZONE_USER with ZONE_MOVABLE? Or would it be sufficient to selectively enable (explicit opt-in) some user pages to end up on ZONE_MOVABLE? IOW, change the semantics of the zone by an admin. Like, allowing longterm pinning on ZONE_MOVABLE. Sure, it would degrade memory hotunplug (until the relevant applications are shut down) and probably some other things. Further, I am not so sure about the value of having ZONE_MOVABLE sprinkled with small unmovable allocations (same concern regarding any such zone that allows for unmovable things). Kind of against the whole concept. But I mean, if the admin decides to do that (opt in), so he is to blame. -- Cheers David / dhildenb