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From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
To: James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@HansenPartnership.com>
Cc: Jeff Garzik <jeff@garzik.org>, David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>,
	arjan@infradead.org, greg@kroah.com, sfr@canb.auug.org.au,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-next@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, akpm@linux-foundation.org
Subject: Re: Announce: Linux-next (Or Andrew's dream :-))
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:59:00 -0800 (PST)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0802121051341.2920@woody.linux-foundation.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0802121037340.2920@woody.linux-foundation.org>



On Tue, 12 Feb 2008, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> 
> In other words, I'm perfectly happy to be an a*hole and tell people that I 
> simply won't merge things that cause undue API churn at all, and that were 
> not thought out sufficiently.

.. btw: I'd need to know this in advance. I usually don't see the problem 
until it's too late.

And this is very much an area where "Linux-next" can help: if some 
subsystem causes problems in Linux-next for other maintainers, I really 
think it shouldn't just be a matter of "drop the git tree that didn't 
merge cleanly", but it should literally be a question of "maybe we should 
drop the _earlier_ git tree that caused the later one not to merge 
cleanly".

In other words, maybe things like core block layer changes or device model 
changes should be *last* in the merge-list (or if first, also be first to 
be dropped if they cause merge errors downstream!).

That way, infrastructure changes that screw up others can only happen if 
the maintainer actively works with the others to make sure it works even 
before it would ever merge into Linux-next successfully.

That may sound odd, but it actually matches what I personally believe in: 
we have more driver code and other "outlying" things than we have core 
things, and most of our problems come from that - so we should prioritize 
*those* things, not the "fundmantal core changes".

So how about making that the default situation: drivers and other outliers 
merge first. If fundamental API changes happen, they merge last, and if 
their maintainers can't make it in time in the merge window, they just get 
dropped.

That sure as hell would put the pain on API changes solidly where it 
belongs.

			Linus

  reply	other threads:[~2008-02-12 18:59 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 215+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-02-12  1:02 Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-12  1:36 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-12  2:23   ` Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-12  3:32     ` James Bottomley
2008-02-12  2:25 ` Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-13 12:53   ` Frank Seidel
2008-02-19  0:45     ` Frank Seidel
2008-02-13 20:24   ` Ann Davis
2008-02-13 20:57     ` Adrian Bunk
2008-02-12  4:21 ` Greg KH
2008-02-12  4:31   ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-02-12  4:43     ` Greg KH
2008-02-12  5:17       ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-02-12  5:53         ` Greg KH
2008-02-12  6:07           ` David Miller
2008-02-12 16:31             ` Jeff Garzik
2008-02-12 17:04               ` John W. Linville
2008-02-12 18:11                 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-02-13  0:12                 ` David Miller
2008-02-12 19:37               ` J. Bruce Fields
2008-02-12 20:07                 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-13  0:50                   ` David Miller
2008-02-13  1:31                     ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-13  1:38                       ` David Miller
2008-02-13  1:57                         ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-13  2:06                           ` Andrew Morton
2008-02-13  2:18                             ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-13  2:20                             ` David Miller
2008-02-13  2:47                               ` Joel Becker
2008-02-13 15:06                                 ` John W. Linville
2008-02-13 16:45                                   ` Joel Becker
2008-02-13  4:25                       ` J. Bruce Fields
2008-02-13  5:43                         ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-13 17:52                           ` J. Bruce Fields
2008-02-14 17:35                             ` Benny Halevy
2008-02-15 17:15                               ` J. Bruce Fields
2008-02-12 23:51               ` David Miller
2008-02-12 23:54                 ` Al Viro
2008-02-13  0:16                   ` J. Bruce Fields
2008-02-13  0:48                     ` Al Viro
2008-02-13  0:56                       ` J. Bruce Fields
2008-02-13  0:59                       ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-13  1:25                         ` Al Viro
2008-02-12 15:07           ` James Bottomley
2008-02-12 15:32             ` Benny Halevy
2008-02-12 16:00               ` James Bottomley
2008-02-12  6:11         ` David Miller
2008-02-12  6:21           ` Harvey Harrison
2008-02-12 16:36           ` Jeff Garzik
2008-02-12 16:46             ` Benny Halevy
2008-02-12 17:03             ` James Bottomley
2008-02-12 17:09             ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-12 17:38               ` Roland Dreier
2008-02-12 17:41               ` James Bottomley
2008-02-12 17:53                 ` Benny Halevy
2008-02-12 18:36                   ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-12 19:25                     ` Benny Halevy
2008-02-12 18:00                 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-12 18:24                   ` James Bottomley
2008-02-12 18:48                     ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-12 18:59                       ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2008-02-12 19:19                         ` Greg KH
2008-02-13 10:05                           ` Russell King
2008-02-13 12:06                             ` Jeff Garzik
2008-02-13 12:19                               ` Russell King
2008-02-12 19:41                         ` Al Viro
2008-02-12 21:51                           ` Alan Cox
2008-02-12 22:17                             ` Andrew Morton
2008-02-12 22:20                               ` Alan Cox
2008-02-12 22:41                                 ` Al Viro
2008-02-12 23:01                                   ` Alan Cox
2008-02-12 23:27                                     ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 22:55                                 ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 22:59                                   ` Alan Cox
2008-02-12 23:26                                     ` Greg KH
2008-02-13 10:07                             ` Russell King
2008-02-13  0:36                         ` David Miller
2008-02-13  0:53                           ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-13  1:25                             ` David Miller
2008-02-12 19:17                       ` James Bottomley
2008-02-13  0:33                       ` David Miller
2008-02-12 20:18                     ` Jiri Kosina
2008-02-12 21:00                       ` James Bottomley
2008-02-13  0:27                     ` David Miller
2008-02-17 12:42                     ` David Woodhouse
2008-02-12 17:48               ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 18:26                 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-12 19:15                   ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 19:46                     ` Al Viro
2008-02-12 20:50                       ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 21:08                         ` Al Viro
2008-02-12 21:20                           ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 21:36                             ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-13 10:54                         ` Christoph Hellwig
2008-02-13 17:24                         ` Adrian Bunk
2008-02-12 19:55                     ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-12 20:48                       ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 21:25                         ` Matthew Wilcox
2008-02-12 23:49                         ` Theodore Tso
2008-02-15 23:23                         ` Russell King
2008-02-15 23:37                           ` Andrew Morton
2008-02-15 23:47                             ` Randy Dunlap
2008-02-16  0:12                               ` Andrew Morton
2008-02-16  0:17                               ` Russell King
2008-02-16  0:25                                 ` Randy Dunlap
2008-02-13 17:12                       ` Roel Kluin
2008-02-13 18:08                         ` Alan Cox
2008-02-15 23:05                           ` Roel Kluin
2008-02-16  0:03                             ` Alan Cox
2008-02-13 18:09                         ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-15 22:59                           ` Roel Kluin
2008-02-13  0:41                     ` David Miller
2008-02-13  0:47                       ` Andrew Morton
2008-02-13  1:23                         ` David Miller
2008-02-13  7:38                         ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2008-02-13  8:45                       ` distributed module configuration [Was: Announce: Linux-next (Or Andrew's dream :-))] Sam Ravnborg
2008-02-13  8:54                         ` distributed module configuration David Miller
2008-02-13  9:04                           ` Sam Ravnborg
2008-02-13  9:06                             ` David Miller
2008-02-13 10:09                             ` Giacomo A. Catenazzi
2008-02-17 15:51                           ` Pavel Machek
2008-02-14  0:56                         ` distributed module configuration [Was: Announce: Linux-next (Or Andrew's dream :-))] Roman Zippel
2008-02-14  8:48                           ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2008-02-14 22:38                           ` Sam Ravnborg
2008-02-13  0:31                   ` Announce: Linux-next (Or Andrew's dream :-)) David Miller
2008-02-12 18:48                 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-02-12 20:03               ` Russell King
2008-02-12 20:23                 ` Andrew Morton
2008-02-12 20:31                 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-13 17:53               ` Adrian Bunk
2008-02-12 23:58             ` David Miller
2008-02-13  0:29               ` Greg KH
2008-02-13  0:49                 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-13  1:24                   ` David Miller
2008-02-13  2:16                   ` Theodore Tso
2008-02-13 10:58                     ` Catalin Marinas
2008-02-13  6:16                   ` Greg KH
2008-02-13  7:28                     ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2008-02-16 11:16                       ` Thomas Gleixner
2008-02-13 10:36                     ` Theodore Tso
2008-02-13 17:55                       ` Greg KH
2008-02-13 10:48                     ` Catalin Marinas
2008-02-13  0:37               ` Andrew Morton
2008-02-13  1:16                 ` David Miller
2008-02-13  1:46                   ` Andrew Morton
2008-02-13  0:44               ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-13  1:20                 ` David Miller
2008-02-13  1:41                   ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-13  1:46                     ` David Miller
2008-02-13  2:25                   ` James Bottomley
2008-02-13  2:35                     ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-13  3:00                       ` James Bottomley
2008-02-13  3:31                         ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-13  3:48                           ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-13  5:17                             ` Nicolas Pitre
2008-02-13  4:10                           ` James Bottomley
2008-02-13  5:14                           ` Nicolas Pitre
2008-02-13  4:19                         ` Paul Mundt
2008-02-13  4:52                   ` J. Bruce Fields
2008-02-12  4:45     ` Trond Myklebust
2008-02-12  5:11       ` Theodore Tso
2008-02-12  6:02         ` David Miller
2008-02-12  7:06           ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-02-12 22:44             ` Theodore Tso
2008-02-12  6:15         ` Andrew Morton
2008-02-12 11:57           ` Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-12 14:57             ` Greg KH
2008-02-14  8:14             ` Russell King
2008-02-14 12:22               ` Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-14 18:01                 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-14 18:32                   ` Gene Heskett
2008-02-14 20:32                     ` Greg KH
2008-02-14 20:39                       ` Gene Heskett
2008-02-15  6:44                       ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2008-02-15  6:29                     ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2008-02-15  9:26                       ` Gene Heskett
2008-02-15 14:52                         ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2008-02-15  1:11                   ` Ingo Molnar
2008-02-20 14:55                   ` Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-20 15:38                     ` Stefan Richter
2008-02-20 15:42                       ` Theodore Tso
2008-02-20 17:13                         ` Adrian Bunk
2008-02-21 13:22                           ` Theodore Tso
2008-02-12  5:07   ` Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-12  5:56     ` Greg KH
2008-02-12  6:10       ` Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-12 16:24   ` multiple drivers, single device (was Re: Announce: Linux-next (Or Andrew's dream :-))) Jeff Garzik
2008-02-12 16:42     ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 17:42       ` multiple drivers, single device Roland Dreier
2008-02-12 17:51         ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 18:08         ` Jeff Garzik
2008-02-12 17:56       ` multiple drivers, single device (was Re: Announce: Linux-next (Or Andrew's dream :-))) Jeff Garzik
2008-02-12 18:10         ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 18:31           ` Jeff Garzik
2008-02-12 18:30         ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-12 21:38           ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 22:34   ` Announce: Linux-next (Or Andrew's dream :-)) Jan Engelhardt
2008-02-12 18:02 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-02-13  1:20 ` Randy Dunlap
2008-02-13  5:03 ` Kumar Gala
2008-02-14 23:22 ` Roland Dreier
2008-02-15  1:02   ` Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-16 15:14     ` James Bottomley
2008-02-17  5:25       ` Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-17 14:27         ` James Bottomley
2008-02-16  0:09 ` Russell King
2008-02-16  0:21   ` Andrew Morton
2008-02-16  0:31     ` Russell King
2008-02-16  0:45       ` Andrew Morton
2008-02-16  0:42     ` Alexey Dobriyan
2008-02-16  8:08       ` Russell King
2008-02-26  3:54   ` Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-29 12:45     ` Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-29 13:04       ` Adrian Bunk
2008-02-29 23:45         ` Stephen Rothwell

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