From: Petr Mladek <pmladek@suse.com>
To: John Ogness <john.ogness@linutronix.de>
Cc: "Sergey Senozhatsky" <senozhatsky@chromium.org>,
"Steven Rostedt" <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
"Marcos Paulo de Souza" <mpdesouza@suse.com>,
"Samuel Thibault" <samuel.thibault@ens-lyon.org>,
"Greg Kroah-Hartman" <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
"Jiri Slaby" <jirislaby@kernel.org>,
"Ilpo Järvinen" <ilpo.jarvinen@linux.intel.com>,
"Hugo Villeneuve" <hvilleneuve@dimonoff.com>,
"Fushuai Wang" <wangfushuai@baidu.com>,
"Kees Cook" <kees@kernel.org>,
"Stepan Ionichev" <sozdayvek@gmail.com>,
linux-serial@vger.kernel.org,
"Manuel Lauss" <manuel.lauss@gmail.com>,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 1/1] braille: nbcon: Allow to use a serial console with NBCON API as Braille console
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2026 15:08:23 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <aru4R20JtHzdScNC@pathway.suse.cz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <874if8cpbd.fsf@jogness.linutronix.de>
On Tue 2026-09-29 12:47:26, John Ogness wrote:
> On 2026-09-25, Petr Mladek <pmladek@suse.com> wrote:
> > The Braille console is integrated with the virtual terminal (VT) and
> > writes its data using the legacy con->write() callback of the associated
> > serial console driver.
> >
> > When the associated serial console driver gets converted to the NBCON API,
> > the braille write callback should use con->write_atomic() callback
> > with an appropriate locking.
> >
> > It must be the atomic variant because it can be called under a spin_lock,
> > for example via:
> >
> > + kbd_event()
> > + kbd_keycode()
> > + atomic_notifier_call_chain(&keyboard_notifier_list)
> > + vt_notifier_call()
> > + vc_refresh()
> > + braille_write()
> >
> > In addition, it can be called from printk() in any context via
> > the graphical tty driver (vt code) even when the Braille driver is not
> > in console_list directly.
> >
> > The locking is inspired with nbcon_legacy_emit_next_record(),
> > nbcon_kdb_try_acquire()/release(), and the original serial driver locking:
> >
> > 1. IRQs are explicitly disabled to prevent CPU migration and nested
> > calls into the serial driver code.
> >
> > 2. New nbcon_braille_try_acquire()/release() API allows to initialize
> > the write context and acquire the ownership. It is using
> > NBCON_PRIO_NORMAL because it competes only with the other operations
> > on the serial console driver which are serialized using
> > nbcon_device_try_acquire().
> >
> > 3. It uses a busy loop until it acquires the ownership. Otherwise,
> > the messages would get lost. [*]
>
> There could only be ownership issues if userspace is playing with the
> /dev/ttySx device node, which userspace should not be doing.
Yup.
> > 4. It does just the best effort when oops_in_progress is set.
> >
> > Also, adjust __serial8250_console_write() in the 8250 serial driver to
> > exclude Braille consoles from the newline prepending logic.
>
> Note that all NBCON drivers cause this issue, not just the 8250.
Good point!
> Later I mention why it does not matter and no changes to the 8250 are required.
I am afraid that it matters see below.
> > The serial
> > port is not used for standard printk logging which might be interrupted
> > in the middle of the operation. In the Braille mode, the serial driver
> > is supposed to write exactly what it gets. In fact, it does not print
> > any newlines at all in this case.
>
> Well, it still performs the "\n" -> "\r\n" conversions. But I guess that
> is appropriate.
OK, it keeps "\n" when it is there. The problem is that
braille_write() writes incomplete lines most of the time, see
https://lore.kernel.org/all/arW4C9TYane57IGN@end/
For example, I see the following on the serial console in the Braille mode:
<paste>
E>[ E>[ E>[ O *>[ OK A>[ OK A>[ OK A>[ OK ] <>[ OK ] <>[ OK ] R N>[ OK ] Re
>[ OK ] Rea J>[ OK ] Reac >[ OK ] Reach A>[ OK ] Reache D>[ OK ] Reached @>[ OK ] Reached @>[ OK ] Reached t
</paste>
So we need to avoid the extra newlines added by the driver code.
It would be better to handle this on the printk() code level.
But the write*() callbacks do not return any error value :-/
> > [*] The busy loop is not safe on PREEMPT_RT where the current owner
> > might sleep. We will need another solution there.
>
> If we are knowingly breaking PREEMPT_RT then this series should also
> include:
>
> diff --git a/drivers/accessibility/Kconfig b/drivers/accessibility/Kconfig
> index 6b2f79d1f1b81..d4faa6e0e01b1 100644
> --- a/drivers/accessibility/Kconfig
> +++ b/drivers/accessibility/Kconfig
> @@ -21,6 +21,7 @@ config A11Y_BRAILLE_CONSOLE
> bool "Console on braille device"
> depends on VT
> depends on SERIAL_CORE_CONSOLE
> + depends on !PREEMPT_RT
> help
> Enables console output on a braille device connected to a 8250
> serial port. For now only the VisioBraille device is supported.
Good point. Will add this in v3.
> The console_braille "driver" needs to be made into a proper driver and
> make use of the serdev subsystem. I am currently working on this, but
> the changes are not trivial. And, optimally, the vt_console should also
> be switched over to NBCON. So this is not something we are going to get
> fixed in an rc6. For that reason, I support moving forward with this
> series until a proper solution is developed.
Sounds like a good long term plan. But I agree that we need another solution
in the meantime.
> > --- a/drivers/tty/serial/8250/8250_port.c
> > +++ b/drivers/tty/serial/8250/8250_port.c
> > @@ -3417,8 +3417,11 @@ static void __serial8250_console_write(struct uart_8250_port *up,
> > * If the console printer did not fully output the previous line, it
> > * must have been handed or taken over. Insert a newline in order to
> > * maintain clean output.
> > + *
> > + * Braille consoles are an exception. The serial port is not used
> > + * for printk(). The driver is supposed to write exactly what it gets.
> > */
> > - if (!up->console_line_ended) {
> > + if (unlikely(!up->console_line_ended && !nbcon_is_braille(wctxt))) {
>
> This change is not necessary because there will never be
> handovers/takeovers for Braille. It is not registered as a console.
Will do in v3.
Thanks a lot review.
Best Regards,
Petr
prev parent reply other threads:[~2026-09-29 13:08 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 4+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2026-09-25 14:17 [PATCH v2 0/1] braille: nbcon: Fix Braille console for NBCON API Petr Mladek
2026-09-25 14:17 ` [PATCH v2 1/1] braille: nbcon: Allow to use a serial console with NBCON API as Braille console Petr Mladek
2026-09-29 10:41 ` John Ogness
2026-09-29 13:08 ` Petr Mladek [this message]
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