From: Baoquan He <baoquan.he@linux.dev>
To: "David Hildenbrand (Arm)" <david@kernel.org>
Cc: Klara Modin <klarasmodin@gmail.com>,
Baoquan He <hebaoquan@kylinos.cn>,
linux-mm@kvack.org, akpm@linux-foundation.org, chrisl@kernel.org,
kasong@tencent.com, hannes@cmpxchg.org, nphamcs@gmail.com,
baohua@kernel.org, youngjun.park@lge.com, yosry@kernel.org,
shikemeng@huaweicloud.com, chengming.zhou@linux.dev,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kunwu.chan@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH v4 00/14] mm, swap: extendable swap devices (xswap phase I)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2026 17:18:12 +0800 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <as33VMjNRIZOG5Ua@MiWiFi-R3L-srv> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <565e1744-54ff-4daf-ac14-7b6c49fd3fa2@kernel.org>
On 10/12/26 at 03:44pm, David Hildenbrand (Arm) wrote:
> On 10/12/26 11:16, Baoquan He wrote:
> > Hi Klara,
> >
> > On 10/07/26 at 06:28pm, Klara Modin wrote:
> >> On 2026-10-03 08:31:22 +0800, Baoquan He wrote:
> > ...snip...
> >>> The only argument create takes is a priority. The size comes from
> >>> xswap.max= at boot, so there is one place to ask for a size and one to
> >>> ask for a priority, and a priority can be given per device while a size
> >>> cannot:
> >>>
> >>> # echo > /sys/kernel/mm/xswap/create default priority
> >>> # echo 100 > /sys/kernel/mm/xswap/create priority 100
> >>>
> >>
> >>> The default is the highest priority, SWAP_FLAG_PRIO_MASK. An xswap
> >>> device is then the first one tried, ahead of any ordinary swap device.
> >>> Setting a lower priority is allowed.
> >>
> >> Nice, this is now a good default which the user should not have to
> >> change.
> >
> > Thanks a lot for careful reviewing, and sorry for late reply.
> >
> >>
> >>>
> >>> The device does not move once it exists, so the address space cannot be
> >>> changed from this interface either. xswap.max= at boot and this together
> >>> are the whole configuration.
> > ...snip...
> >>> Open items
> >>> ----------
> >>>
> >>> - xswap_create() sets si->pages to the whole address space (twice RAM by
> >>> default) and _enable_swap_info() adds it to nr_swap_pages and
> >>> total_swap_pages, which is what __vm_enough_memory() uses for
> >>> overcommit. That raises the commit limit by 2xRAM for a device whose
> >>> real capacity is bounded by the zswap pool and by how well the workload
> >>> compresses. The question is which semantics overcommit should follow:
> >>> worst-case backing, or the address space.
> >>>
> >>> - destroy takes a bare swap type. The type is an internal index that
> >>> alloc_swap_info() recycles as soon as SWP_USED clears, so a value read
> >>> earlier can name a different device by the time it is written. The
> >>> swapoff ABI uses a path for this reason. It wants a generation or
> >>> another stable handle.
> >>>
> >>> - The new interfaces (/sys/kernel/mm/xswap/create and destroy, xswap.max=,
> >>> the new type string in /proc/swaps) are not documented yet.
> >>
> >> To me it feels a bit weird to have the interface split between a kernel
> >> parameter and sysfs, meaning I have to configure this in two places now.
> >> As far as I gather, there's also nothing that needs the limit to be
> >> fixed at boot since it is applied at creation. If we want to expose this
> >> limit to users (as xswap does) it would be nice to have a 'max'
> >> shorthand for tha largest possible value, i.e. SWAPFILE_CLUSTER *
> >> UNIT_MAX (or whatever it might be in the future). That would I guess in
> >> practice give the same behaviour as vm.overcommit_memory=1 which might
> >> or might not be desirable.
> >
> > Thanks for the comment.
> >
> > Here xswap.max= is a global boot parameter, while not a per-device or
> > runtie knob. It sets the space space (si->max) of the xswap device
> > at boot and can't change at runtime. So on the two places: the size is
> > a global setting, fixed at boot; the priority is per device, it is in
> > the create interface. They are different things.
> >
> > The default is 2xRAM. From our earlier discussion, this is the largest
> > size we think is sensible, and in practice I don't think it is not
> > reachable in reality. If a system has swapped out 70% of its memory, and
> > even more at 100%, it is already doubtful that it can still function
> > normally. So 2xRAM is an upper bound, not a target.
>
> I remember some overcommitted hypervisor setups where people swapped out
> significantly more -- without any issues.
>
> For example, Windows VMs initialize all VM memory when booting up. Afterwards,
> you might just have plenty of memory that was touched once but will not really
> be used in any near future.
>
> So I would consider some crazy hypervisor scenarios as well where people
> commonly have significant cold memory that is currently not hot (not in the
> working set) but might possibly used in some distant future.
Hi David,
Thanks a lot for the valuable input. This is probably the first first-hand
information I have heard about a production environment. And Klara
measured about 160% of RAM in zswap on her RISC-V box, so the 2xRAM default
is reachable in practice, not just in theory.
So I see 2xRAM as a default, not as a cap. xswap.max= already overrides it.
After your comment and Klara's numbers, I am open to a larger default, or to
a "max" value for the address space. The real limit is still the backing:
the zswap pool plus the block devices. The address space should no longer
be the limiting factor.
By the way, in Windows-VM case you mentioned, is there a block swap backend,
or is it zswap alone? If it is zswap alone, the knob that matters is
zswap.max_pool_percent, because it sets how much cold memory the pool can
hold.
Thanks
Baoquan
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2026-10-13 9:18 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 30+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2026-10-03 0:31 Baoquan He
2026-10-03 0:31 ` [PATCH v4 01/14] mm: xswap support for zswap Baoquan He
2026-10-07 4:22 ` KunWu Chan
2026-10-03 0:31 ` [PATCH v4 02/14] mm, swap: refactor free_swap_cluster_info to take swap_info_struct Baoquan He
2026-10-07 4:32 ` KunWu Chan
2026-10-03 0:31 ` [PATCH v4 03/14] mm, swap: back the cluster_info array with a sparse VM_SPARSE area Baoquan He
2026-10-03 0:31 ` [PATCH v4 04/14] mm, swap: add sysfs create interface for xswap Baoquan He
2026-10-07 6:32 ` KunWu Chan
2026-10-03 0:31 ` [PATCH v4 05/14] mm, swap: add xswap grow trigger on cluster allocation Baoquan He
2026-10-07 6:52 ` KunWu Chan
2026-10-03 0:31 ` [PATCH v4 06/14] mm, swap: add xswap_try_shrink and shrink trigger on cluster free Baoquan He
2026-10-03 0:31 ` [PATCH v4 07/14] mm, swap: free backing pages in xswap_unmap_clusters Baoquan He
2026-10-03 0:31 ` [PATCH v4 08/14] mm, swap: defer xswap shrink to workqueue to avoid lock recursion Baoquan He
2026-10-08 9:10 ` KunWu Chan
2026-10-12 7:23 ` Baoquan He
2026-10-03 0:31 ` [PATCH v4 09/14] mm, swap: refactor swapoff and add xswap_destroy Baoquan He
2026-10-03 0:31 ` [PATCH v4 10/14] mm, swap: require zswap for xswap devices Baoquan He
2026-10-03 0:31 ` [PATCH v4 11/14] mm, swap: do not give an xswap slot to a cgroup that cannot zswap Baoquan He
2026-10-03 0:31 ` [PATCH v4 12/14] mm, swap: widen swap_info_struct max/pages to unsigned long Baoquan He
2026-10-03 0:31 ` [PATCH v4 13/14] mm, swap: add debugfs counters for xswap Baoquan He
2026-10-03 0:31 ` [PATCH v4 14/14] mm, swap: let the command line set the xswap device size Baoquan He
2026-10-07 16:28 ` [PATCH v4 00/14] mm, swap: extendable swap devices (xswap phase I) Klara Modin
2026-10-12 9:16 ` Baoquan He
2026-10-12 13:44 ` David Hildenbrand (Arm)
2026-10-13 9:18 ` Baoquan He [this message]
2026-10-13 15:08 ` David Hildenbrand (Arm)
2026-10-13 16:42 ` Nhat Pham
2026-10-12 14:10 ` Klara Modin
2026-10-13 10:20 ` Baoquan He
2026-10-13 14:26 ` Klara Modin
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