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[34.127.75.64]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 98e67ed59e1d1-3ada495315dsm2092370a91.15.2026.10.21.19.57.44 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 21 Oct 2026 19:57:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2026 02:57:41 +0000 From: David Matlack To: Pasha Tatashin Cc: tarunsahu@google.com, Andrew Morton , joro@8bytes.org, Mike Rapoport , Pratyush Yadav , maz@kernel.org, arnd@arndb.de, jgg@nvidia.com, robin.murphy@arm.com, loganodell@google.com, oupton@kernel.org, kevin.tian@intel.com, alex@shazbot.org, dwmw2@infradead.org, pbonzini@redhat.com, seanjc@google.com, will@kernel.org, Alexander Graf , Bjorn Helgaas , baolu.lu@linux.intel.com, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, sagis@google.com, linux-mm@kvack.org, kvmarm@lists.linux.dev, iommu@lists.linux.dev, linux-pci@vger.kernel.org, kexec@lists.infradead.org, skhawaja@google.com, kvm@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v2 3/4] liveupdate: Replace compatibility string with a 2-bit pair feature header Message-ID: References: <20261021152527.375070-1-tarunsahu@google.com> <20261021152527.375070-4-tarunsahu@google.com> <9huzecdi6go0.fsf@tarunix.c.googlers.com> X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: On 2026-10-21 09:26 PM, Pasha Tatashin wrote: > On Wed, Oct 21, 2026 at 7:28 PM David Matlack wrote: > > > > On 2026-10-21 02:50 PM, Pasha Tatashin wrote: > > > On Wed, Oct 21, 2026 at 2:47 PM David Matlack wrote: > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 21, 2026 at 11:40 AM wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Pasha Tatashin writes: > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 21, 2026 at 11:25 AM Tarun Sahu wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> LUO and its file handlers validate handed-over state with monolithic > > > > > >> compatibility strings ("luo-v5", "memfd-v2"). Any change to a serialized > > > > > >> structure, even an optional additive one, must bump the string, which > > > > > >> breaks live update between adjacent kernels. Replace the string in > > > > > >> struct luo_ser with a feature header, so that the target kernel can > > > > > >> accept or reject the source kernel state per feature. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> struct luo_feature_hdr is a fixed 128-byte header: the serialized > > > > > > > > > > > > This patch is all wrong; 128 bytes is far too large. For every _ser > > > > > > struct, we only need 8 bytes instead. > > > > > > > > > > NOO, It is not. It is intended to avoid complex mess with unnecessary > > > > > over-engineering. > > > > > > 128-byte per serialized struct is not starter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The first 4 bytes are the size, and the next 4 bytes are flags (i.e., > > > > > > 30 feature flags + 2 reserved bits for flags extension). The last two > > > > > > bits of the flags indicate whether an extended flags field is present. > > > > > > Each extended flags field is 8 bytes, and its last two bits indicate > > > > > > that yet another extended flags field follows. > > > > > > > > > > If we will have dynamic extension of flags, Think about this. > > > > > > > > To support dynamic extensions in a backward compatible way you want > > > > something like this: > > > > > > > > struct luo_feature_hdr { > > > > size > > > > flags > > > > > > __u32 size > > > __u32 flags > > > > > > > extensions // offset of first luo_feature_extensions (or 0) > > > > > > __u64 extensions[0] --> but the size should be specificed in > > > declaration macro that I showed in the next patch. > > > > I think you may have misunderstood what I meant. In my proposal, > > extensions is an offset to the first extension, not an array of > > extensions that immediately follow the header. > > > > If the extensions immediately follow the header, then the number of > > extensions is baked into the struct layout. Every field after them sits > > at an offset that depends on how many extensions there are. If we ever > > need one more extension, all the fields shift and old and new kernels > > can no longer read each other's struct. That is the problem Tarun > > We can structure it cleanly by nesting the payload: something like > struct { struct header {...}h; struct serialize_data { ... }p; }; > That way, the header can expand dynamically at the front, while all > fields inside `serialize_data` stay at fixed offsets relative to the > start > of the payload. > > Since the header size is self-describing via continuation bits (e.g., > the last two bits indicating whether another flag word follows), LUO > can > easily compute where the payload begins in the incoming blob. This > keeps the implementation simple, avoids linked lists of offsets. Oh interesting. I agree a dynamically sized header at the front can work and is simpler than a linked list. So the header and the payload need to be separate, and the payload is located with pointer arithmetic on the header. For example: struct luo_ser_hdr { u32 size; /* Size of the payload in bytes */ u32 flags; /* Bits [31:30] indicate an extension word follows */ /* u64 extension words follow while the continuation bits are set */ }; /* Size of the header, including any extension words. */ size_t luo_ser_hdr_size(const struct luo_ser_hdr *hdr); static inline void *luo_ser_payload(const struct luo_ser_hdr *hdr) { return (void *)hdr + luo_ser_hdr_size(hdr); } On preserve: hdr = kho_alloc_preserve(luo_ser_hdr_size_for(nr_ext) + sizeof(*ser)); luo_ser_hdr_init(hdr, sizeof(*ser), ...); ser = luo_ser_payload(hdr); ... args->serialized_data = virt_to_phys(hdr); On retrieve: hdr = phys_to_virt(args->serialized_data); err = luo_ser_hdr_validate(hdr, ...); if (err) return err; ser = luo_ser_payload(hdr); What would size mean in luo_ser_hdr? The size of the payload or the size of the combined luo_ser_hdr + payload. luo_ser_hdr is self describing so maybe it's just the size of the payload?