From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from casper.infradead.org (casper.infradead.org [90.155.50.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 40C4C233947; Tue, 19 May 2026 11:44:41 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=90.155.50.34 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1779191086; cv=none; b=uuyFzlx3QrJ3FM6hNnx4idlUov1g0Sz9c1/YVW8cZbyO3cD+WosUI3Xid+BpABLCwPjt1Vxgj9HzC0GKv47Cqsxlfz6A9QmHKFNNA1okVmAo8ytwgH2UpNRVEPVuBTaNBAPF95cH0/ynD7/w/mWmZ116/Bb5ocvLDMGsZTFlIw0= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1779191086; c=relaxed/simple; bh=Yu4thT1PicZEOD5m8O0d2eX0CmCh2+UBkP7CuZidmCw=; h=Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References: Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=bmx1R2C+vbcHAVQTCRSD4pr8AaP5RBgmub/Vy5a9cA8Rbe+ITejWsWoUyRmTpL3ikW5qWO1TBqorGFP8XLvp6y2kyRjPfRE+pO1ASnojwMy5IT9oCykPd8uBJBorSJNqA6lSf+dKj6U4wwiK4oKWgDxqulDZXTNuZ39Vgq1KllI= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=infradead.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=casper.srs.infradead.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=infradead.org header.i=@infradead.org header.b=U0JTkMcR; arc=none smtp.client-ip=90.155.50.34 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=infradead.org Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=casper.srs.infradead.org Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=infradead.org header.i=@infradead.org header.b="U0JTkMcR" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infradead.org; s=casper.20170209; h=MIME-Version:Content-Type:References: In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description; bh=Yu4thT1PicZEOD5m8O0d2eX0CmCh2+UBkP7CuZidmCw=; b=U0JTkMcR0ysrTHCl2LGow0SOZm UsFkiyHRWIWgCdRzeABcX/FDMzb38IP5O8q+4k5QOHR16MQY4bDrBUbeNfHYD8fO3Rs0M1V/1Kz2C v3SflH0lfmj0TeRo02VRlOW66I2O5xqSp/QlfyONoNZlInOAVX/KagiredTUcS23C4qqAaYVw3sNf 168CJM+BBG/qn7Yj1VgG+vn2kqbnwPV0ZleGof8Nos9EcE0TfXoHFnSt0v8bGm6tfQ3SD+Nc7DqWy A3mVHoFvy8py2qnvJb1F4p0YR/Eoe/if+93eZGP0BahdtcZ1R9LjsY0V1Dh0pxzWmVFb59LePwSa2 0f0HMoKw==; Received: from 54-240-197-233.amazon.com ([54.240.197.233] helo=u09cd745991455d.ant.amazon.com) by casper.infradead.org with esmtpsa (Exim 4.99.1 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1wPIsD-00000005reu-2Pp1; Tue, 19 May 2026 11:44:33 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCH] Documentation: KVM: Document guest-visible compatibility expectations From: David Woodhouse To: Will Deacon Cc: Paolo Bonzini , Marc Zyngier , Jonathan Corbet , Shuah Khan , kvm , Linux Doc Mailing List , "Kernel Mailing List, Linux" , Sean Christopherson , Jim Mattson , Oliver Upton , Joey Gouly , Suzuki K Poulose , Zenghui Yu , Catalin Marinas , Raghavendra Rao Ananta , Eric Auger , Kees Cook , Arnd Bergmann , Nathan Chancellor , linux-arm-kernel , kvmarm@lists.linux.dev, linux-kselftest Date: Tue, 19 May 2026 12:44:32 +0100 In-Reply-To: References: <6856b269d2af706eae397e0cf9c1231f89d9a932.camel@infradead.org> <6afc4b95-3c15-4d71-877d-19b84e91ce05@redhat.com> <57bc082f4824d6114d3156744c25986effc29aca.camel@infradead.org> <86h5obya2r.wl-maz@kernel.org> <48b06e5655d56ff6eda30e563b34894fa0eb2f07.camel@infradead.org> <3f9d731c3d26b0367600f1069e6425099bc34eac.camel@infradead.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="sha-256"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; boundary="=-eJhS63SIL30DfqRjCqNY" User-Agent: Evolution 3.52.3-0ubuntu1.1 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-SRS-Rewrite: SMTP reverse-path rewritten from by casper.infradead.org. See http://www.infradead.org/rpr.html --=-eJhS63SIL30DfqRjCqNY Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 2026-05-19 at 12:11 +0100, Will Deacon wrote: > On Tue, May 19, 2026 at 11:41:26AM +0100, David Woodhouse wrote: > > On Wed, 2026-05-13 at 18:24 +0200, Paolo Bonzini wrote: > > >=20 > > > > See commit https://git.kernel.org/torvalds/c/49a1a2c70a7f=C2=A0whic= h adds a > > > > new guest-visible feature in revision 3, but allowed userspace to > > > > restore the old behaviour by setting it to revision 2. All my patch > > > > =C2=A0above does, is make it possible to set it to revision 1 as > > > > well. Because https://git.kernel.org/torvalds/c/d53c2c29ae0d=C2=A0p= reviously > > > > changed the behaviour and bumped the default to 2 *without* allowin= g > > > > userspace to restore the prior behaviour, and we've been carrying a > > > > *revert* of that patch. > > > >=20 > > > > Why would we *not* accept such a patch? > > >=20 > > > Agreed. Even ignoring your revert, there's no reason why any upgrade > > > past 49a1a2c70a7f has to be from after d53c2c29ae0d. > >=20 > > So where do we go from here? > >=20 > > I assume you'll be taking this Documentation patch via the KVM tree? > >=20 > > But what about the actual fix at=20 > > https://lore.kernel.org/all/20260511113558.3325004-2-dwmw2@infradead.or= g/ > >=20 > > This is a simple and unintrusive bug fix to make KVM/arm64 follow the > > "common sense" requirement that the doc patch codifies, apparently > > being rejected with the rather bizarre claim that KVM has no *need* to > > maintain guest-visible compatibility across host kernel changes. > >=20 > > So... what next? Is one of the other KVM/arm64 maintainers going to > > speak up? Paolo would you consider taking the fixes through your tree > > directly?=20 > >=20 > > Does Arm not actually *care* whether AArch64 is considered a stable and > > mature platform for KVM hosting? >=20 > Hey, come on. Marc cares more about this stuff than anybody else on the > planet. He's been single-handedly maintaining the tree for the past > couple of releases while Oliver was out and he's on the end of a _lot_ > of patches. I'm only cc'd on a fraction of the KVM/arm64 changes and > it's bedlam. I certainly wouldn't disagree with any of that. The depth of knowledge and the amount of energy that Marc displays through this work is impressive, and I'm sure we all have an enormous amount of respect for it, and for him. I know I do. Nevertheless, the specific technical decision to reject the simple bug fix linked above is dead wrong. Because the principle under which it was rejected =E2=80=94 the idea that K= VM has no responsibility to maintain compatibility of guest-visible behaviour from one kernel version to the next =E2=80=94 is also dead wrong. If KVM on arm64 doesn't aspire to maintain guest compatibility across host kernel changes =E2=80=94 regardless of whether the previous kernel's behaviour was "blessed" by the architecture specification or not =E2=80=94 = then it does not meet the expectation that we have of KVM implementations in the Linux kernel. Or indeed the standards that we've held for Linux kernel ABIs for the last 35 years. --=-eJhS63SIL30DfqRjCqNY Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCCD9Aw ggSOMIIDdqADAgECAhAOmiw0ECVD4cWj5DqVrT9PMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAMGUxCzAJBgNVBAYT AlVTMRUwEwYDVQQKEwxEaWdpQ2VydCBJbmMxGTAXBgNVBAsTEHd3dy5kaWdpY2VydC5jb20xJDAi BgNVBAMTG0RpZ2lDZXJ0IEFzc3VyZWQgSUQgUm9vdCBDQTAeFw0yNDAxMzAwMDAwMDBaFw0zMTEx MDkyMzU5NTlaMEExCzAJBgNVBAYTAkFVMRAwDgYDVQQKEwdWZXJva2V5MSAwHgYDVQQDExdWZXJv a2V5IFNlY3VyZSBFbWFpbCBHMjCCASIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggEPADCCAQoCggEBAMjvgLKj jfhCFqxYyRiW8g3cNFAvltDbK5AzcOaR7yVzVGadr4YcCVxjKrEJOgi7WEOH8rUgCNB5cTD8N/Et GfZI+LGqSv0YtNa54T9D1AWJy08ZKkWvfGGIXN9UFAPMJ6OLLH/UUEgFa+7KlrEvMUupDFGnnR06 aDJAwtycb8yXtILj+TvfhLFhafxroXrflspavejQkEiHjNjtHnwbZ+o43g0/yxjwnarGI3kgcak7 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