From: Tian Zheng <zhengtian10@huawei.com>
To: Leonardo Bras <leo.bras@arm.com>, Marc Zyngier <maz@kernel.org>
Cc: Oliver Upton <oupton@kernel.org>,
Fuad Tabba <fuad.tabba@linux.dev>,
Joey Gouly <joey.gouly@arm.com>,
Steffen Eiden <seiden@linux.ibm.com>,
Suzuki K Poulose <suzuki.poulose@arm.com>,
Zenghui Yu <yuzenghui@huawei.com>,
Catalin Marinas <catalin.marinas@arm.com>,
Will Deacon <will@kernel.org>,
Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com>,
Raghavendra Rao Ananta <rananta@google.com>,
<linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org>, <kvmarm@lists.linux.dev>,
<linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
Tian Zheng <zhengtian10@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 1/5] KVM: arm64: pgtables: Change write bit from S2AP_W to DBM
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2026 19:43:41 +0800 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <d039151a-d114-47fd-988d-df80751f1c97@huawei.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <aqqY1QiB0ZBAQkwc@LeoBrasDK>
On 9/16/2026 9:25 PM, Leonardo Bras wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 16, 2026 at 01:20:33PM +0100, Marc Zyngier wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 Sep 2026 12:22:05 +0100,
>> Leonardo Bras <leo.bras@arm.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 15, 2026 at 05:37:15PM -0700, Oliver Upton wrote:
>>>> On Tue, Sep 15, 2026 at 06:12:45PM +0100, Leonardo Bras wrote:
>>>>>> Yes, the HW should ignore it. But we have also
>>>>>> seen quite a few broken designs in this area...
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I lack experience on what bad thing could happen. So I will expand on what
>>>>> I belive to understand up to here:
>>>>>
>>>>> - The PTE is in memory, so the DBM bit can be set regardless of being RES0
>>>>> - For SW pagetable walking, I don't think 'bit 51 == 0' is checked
>>>>> - For HW pagetable walking, maybe some faulty implementation may rely on
>>>>> bit51 being RES0, and fault otherwise.
>>>>>
>>>>> If that's the case, then we would have to actually support both encodings,
>>>>> and only enable the new one if HAFDBS is available in the system.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just wonder how high are the chances to have such a broken design,
>>>>> or other broken designs did not come to my mind, and if we have to start
>>>>> with that multiple-encoding option.
>>>>
>>>> FWIW, the host stage-1 already uses the DBM bit unconditionally,
>>>> treating it as a software bit on implementations without HAFDBS.
>>>> Although given the quality of any garden variety Arm MMU I understand
>>>> where Marc is coming from.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think the HAFDBS enablement is complicated enough to be done in
>>>> a separate series without any meaningful users, nor would I really be
>>>> interested in taking it without, say, HDBSS.
>>>>
>>>> Can you please work with Tian to get a combined series out for this?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Oliver, thanks for reviewing!
>>>
>>> Sure, one of the reasons I sent like this is so Tian could use it as a base
>>> for his next version.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> diff --git a/arch/arm64/kvm/nested.c b/arch/arm64/kvm/nested.c
>>>>>>> index 17123f0b6dab..eb8dfffc32c7 100644
>>>>>>> --- a/arch/arm64/kvm/nested.c
>>>>>>> +++ b/arch/arm64/kvm/nested.c
>>>>>>> @@ -379,21 +379,23 @@ static int walk_nested_s2_pgd(struct kvm_vcpu *vcpu, phys_addr_t ipa,
>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> addr_bottom += contiguous_bit_shift(desc, wi, level);
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> /* Calculate and return the result */
>>>>>>> paddr = (desc & GENMASK_ULL(47, addr_bottom)) |
>>>>>>> (ipa & GENMASK_ULL(addr_bottom - 1, 0));
>>>>>>> out->output = paddr;
>>>>>>> out->block_size = 1UL << ((3 - level) * stride + wi->pgshift);
>>>>>>> out->readable = desc & KVM_PTE_LEAF_ATTR_LO_S2_S2AP_R;
>>>>>>> - out->writable = desc & KVM_PTE_LEAF_ATTR_LO_S2_S2AP_W;
>>>>>>> + /* Takes care of both RO/RW and RO/WC/WD encodings */
>>>>>>> + out->writable = desc & (KVM_PTE_LEAF_ATTR_HI_S2_DBM |
>>>>>>> + KVM_PTE_LEAF_ATTR_LO_S2_S2AP_W);
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Absolutely NOT. For a start, NV doesn't support FEAT_HAFDBS. But even
>>>>>> if it did, you are now actively corrupting memory by turning a RO
>>>>>> mapping with a spurious DBM bit set into a writable mapping.
>>>>>> VTCR_EL2.HD exists for a reason.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you see why your blanket approach of equating DBM with writable is
>>>>>> plain wrong?
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry, not really... please help me understand it.
>>>>>
>>>>> When you say a spurious DBM bit, what does it mean?
>>>>
>>>> You've implemented the exact sort of bug that was alluded to above. In
>>>> this case it's a software page table walker consuming DBM regardless of
>>>> the value of VTCR_EL2.HD.
>>>>
>>>
>>> So you mean that DBM being treated as "writable" could _only_ happen if we
>>> have VTCR_EL2.HD=1? I was previously under the impression that it could be
>>> used regardless of HD value.
>>
>> Then you have failed to understand the architecture. When
>> VTCR_EL2.HD==0, DBM can be treated as RES0, RES0, or RES0.
>>
>> R_XZFQH and R_BRFGY are pretty clear that DBM can only be evaluated
>> when dirty hw update is enabled, and I_MHJZP tells you what it means
>> for S2 to have this enabled.
>
> Right, I_MHJZP says that if VTCR_EL2.HD is 1, then dirty state hardware
> management is enabled.
>
> Then, R_XZFQH and R_BRFGY say that if (DBM+S2AP) bit combination is the
> given and the dirty state hardware management is enabled then a block
> descriptor is WC/WD.
>
> R_XZFQH header, as an example:
> For each translation stage using Direct permissions, if all of the
> following apply, then a Block descriptor or Page descriptor is described
> as writable-clean[...]
>
> It says:
> "if all apply, the block is WC",
> it does not say
> "only if all apply, the block is WC".
> so it forces one way, but not the other.
>
> So I previously understood that we could also use the encoding for WC/WD in
> software, to avoid having 2 distinct encodings, when VTCR_EL2.HD=0.
>
> If that's not possible, as you mentioned, then yes, I failed to get that
> part. I also see that you mention it being RES0 when VTCR_EL2.HD==0, but I
> honestly could not find reference to that. :(
>
> What I could find on Arm ARM M.cc was Table D8-53, which states for
> bit 51 that it's DBM if indirect permissions are disabled, or PIINDEX[1]
> if they are enabled. There is also no such information in D8.5.2 about this
> res0 behavior.
>
> So I am possibly missing the proper place to look for that information.
> Could you please share that with me so I can improve and maybe avoid being
> a inconvenience in the future?
>
> Thanks!
> Leo
>
Hi Leo, Marc,
On the NV side, KVM itself already limits the L1-visible
ID_AA64MMFR1_EL1.HAFDBS to AF-only in limit_nv_id_reg(), so bit 51 has
no architectural meaning to L1, and an L1 using it as software metadata
would have its read-only pages misread as writable by the union read in
walk_nested_s2_pgd() — the memory corruption Marc described. Since NV
has no HAFDBS emulation today, I'd suggest we simply revert this hunk
for now and keep reading writability from S2AP[1] alone:
```
out->writable = desc & KVM_PTE_LEAF_ATTR_LO_S2_S2AP_W;
```
It seems we can address the NV side later, once nested HAFDBS is
actually supported.
That's what I did when picking the series up for HDBSS v5: patch 1 drops
the nested.c hunk.
Thanks,
Tian
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2026-09-18 11:43 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 27+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2026-09-01 17:15 [RFC PATCH 0/5] KVM: arm64: New PTE dirty-page encoding, HAFDBS new usage Leonardo Bras
2026-09-01 17:15 ` [RFC PATCH 1/5] KVM: arm64: pgtables: Change write bit from S2AP_W to DBM Leonardo Bras
2026-09-13 9:00 ` Marc Zyngier
2026-09-15 17:12 ` Leonardo Bras
2026-09-16 0:37 ` Oliver Upton
2026-09-16 11:22 ` Leonardo Bras
2026-09-16 12:20 ` Marc Zyngier
2026-09-16 13:25 ` Leonardo Bras
2026-09-18 11:43 ` Tian Zheng [this message]
2026-09-18 9:39 ` Tian Zheng
2026-09-16 8:30 ` Marc Zyngier
2026-09-16 13:03 ` Leonardo Bras
2026-09-01 17:15 ` [RFC PATCH 2/5] KVM: arm64: Add KVM_PGTABLE_PROT_DIRTY Leonardo Bras
2026-09-13 9:09 ` Marc Zyngier
2026-09-15 17:33 ` Leonardo Bras
2026-09-01 17:15 ` [RFC PATCH 3/5] KVM: arm64: Introduce a dedicated walker for stage2 write-protect Leonardo Bras
2026-09-01 17:15 ` [RFC PATCH 4/5] KVM: arm64: Add KVM_REQ_RELOAD_STAGE2 Leonardo Bras
2026-09-02 3:41 ` Tian Zheng
2026-09-02 10:53 ` Leonardo Bras
2026-09-01 17:15 ` [RFC PATCH 5/5] KVM: arm64: Enable HAFDBS for guests not on migration Leonardo Bras
2026-09-16 0:10 ` Oliver Upton
2026-09-16 14:00 ` Leonardo Bras
2026-09-16 23:27 ` Oliver Upton
2026-09-17 13:40 ` Leonardo Bras
2026-09-18 11:58 ` Tian Zheng
2026-09-12 12:24 ` [RFC PATCH 0/5] KVM: arm64: New PTE dirty-page encoding, HAFDBS new usage Marc Zyngier
2026-09-15 15:31 ` Leonardo Bras
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