From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mgamail.intel.com (mgamail.intel.com [198.175.65.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB30A35957 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2025 01:09:20 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=198.175.65.12 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1763082562; cv=none; b=Euv+/usE2ZpC0IQ1MYx9f1zIvepBnsExJLvDQFHYib32IoqgM3ZBd+SYLvo8lOz5DMEIDLWxigMsxMruTb4Xm9/QV9gD9KtPGR1RqRKeXmRinwvrSxQOSrt6mH3p7UQ+VRTEBk50yiUr38TVA+B5p4yHTrVBEpsQIcwcpLO8Q6Y= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1763082562; c=relaxed/simple; bh=XS1/fBNjod1kaQTfrIxzJO+Ylx6lHjqthL2lIt36Gqs=; h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:Cc:References:From: In-Reply-To:Content-Type; b=t1g2bbQgYdf9Ncpso8Froa5sHtSNwggwnrXN0mA09Ltato/TU8dcKS4LzaHjDOAX1ZgYRBoCktQfZ5ejAmAngQaPeO09qh8QrvoDcz0GRrkUzSxEq/1hwMc1x2/lGTL1Kh9A5j3isKetNMAetLUADruvzOVpPXVyyc4vXvXhnVE= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=intel.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=intel.com; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=intel.com header.i=@intel.com header.b=S+4AvalS; arc=none smtp.client-ip=198.175.65.12 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=intel.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=intel.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=intel.com header.i=@intel.com header.b="S+4AvalS" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=intel.com; i=@intel.com; q=dns/txt; s=Intel; t=1763082560; x=1794618560; h=message-id:date:mime-version:subject:to:cc:references: from:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=XS1/fBNjod1kaQTfrIxzJO+Ylx6lHjqthL2lIt36Gqs=; b=S+4AvalSJu1YnRRCEU5DMZRnmrzI4hhuo4HmUjtolQxKbteLBwWxcy3K cpcBp8apoPKaF/19S1bI9UXNH+3qi0eud3nRyTR/50v/pDmbGuTNbfUWG afLF3GExzm862CkpmL84AY01ISrnTY4peZGW3TyFtfRxzQot5JBxju4NU kNezehTqsyzIfsF2R7g0S1wCIhO7m6iDfNYvtDDYavwB6Zh9snLBGERhk 1gVAlzOuie27OEUMe4t+d5JAsGIg/DyRhj0xwXVKoBkqzX0Fi6hkhXret iOTm/v/Z6khPxBGO70h0lSkJvm1gU5qCn702BossW93FVtLWrJVmrsAli w==; X-CSE-ConnectionGUID: LRM64dttRoWUS0n684GYdA== X-CSE-MsgGUID: eJOxq0FXTTaDvZpPJWEFXA== X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="6800,10657,11612"; a="76634947" X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="6.19,303,1754982000"; d="scan'208";a="76634947" Received: from orviesa006.jf.intel.com ([10.64.159.146]) by orvoesa104.jf.intel.com with ESMTP/TLS/ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 13 Nov 2025 17:09:20 -0800 X-CSE-ConnectionGUID: Hf0Ee5A9TpmaxDXPoeJIRg== X-CSE-MsgGUID: 47oEXWxeThW2l7wUS+wVaw== X-ExtLoop1: 1 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="6.19,303,1754982000"; d="scan'208";a="188901043" Received: from spandruv-desk1.amr.corp.intel.com (HELO [10.125.108.151]) ([10.125.108.151]) by orviesa006-auth.jf.intel.com with ESMTP/TLS/ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 13 Nov 2025 17:09:20 -0800 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2025 17:09:19 -0800 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PATCH] [v2] Documentation: Provide guidelines for tool-generated content To: NeilBrown , Dave Hansen Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Steven Rostedt , Dan Williams , Theodore Ts'o , Sasha Levin , Jonathan Corbet , Kees Cook , Greg Kroah-Hartman , Miguel Ojeda , Shuah Khan References: <20251105231514.3167738-1-dave.hansen@linux.intel.com> <176290472743.634289.7009461719971062344@noble.neil.brown.name> From: Dave Hansen Content-Language: en-US Autocrypt: addr=dave.hansen@intel.com; keydata= xsFNBE6HMP0BEADIMA3XYkQfF3dwHlj58Yjsc4E5y5G67cfbt8dvaUq2fx1lR0K9h1bOI6fC oAiUXvGAOxPDsB/P6UEOISPpLl5IuYsSwAeZGkdQ5g6m1xq7AlDJQZddhr/1DC/nMVa/2BoY 2UnKuZuSBu7lgOE193+7Uks3416N2hTkyKUSNkduyoZ9F5twiBhxPJwPtn/wnch6n5RsoXsb ygOEDxLEsSk/7eyFycjE+btUtAWZtx+HseyaGfqkZK0Z9bT1lsaHecmB203xShwCPT49Blxz VOab8668QpaEOdLGhtvrVYVK7x4skyT3nGWcgDCl5/Vp3TWA4K+IofwvXzX2ON/Mj7aQwf5W iC+3nWC7q0uxKwwsddJ0Nu+dpA/UORQWa1NiAftEoSpk5+nUUi0WE+5DRm0H+TXKBWMGNCFn c6+EKg5zQaa8KqymHcOrSXNPmzJuXvDQ8uj2J8XuzCZfK4uy1+YdIr0yyEMI7mdh4KX50LO1 pmowEqDh7dLShTOif/7UtQYrzYq9cPnjU2ZW4qd5Qz2joSGTG9eCXLz5PRe5SqHxv6ljk8mb ApNuY7bOXO/A7T2j5RwXIlcmssqIjBcxsRRoIbpCwWWGjkYjzYCjgsNFL6rt4OL11OUF37wL QcTl7fbCGv53KfKPdYD5hcbguLKi/aCccJK18ZwNjFhqr4MliQARAQABzUVEYXZpZCBDaHJp c3RvcGhlciBIYW5zZW4gKEludGVsIFdvcmsgQWRkcmVzcykgPGRhdmUuaGFuc2VuQGludGVs LmNvbT7CwXgEEwECACIFAlQ+9J0CGwMGCwkIBwMCBhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJEGg1 lTBwyZKwLZUP/0dnbhDc229u2u6WtK1s1cSd9WsflGXGagkR6liJ4um3XCfYWDHvIdkHYC1t MNcVHFBwmQkawxsYvgO8kXT3SaFZe4ISfB4K4CL2qp4JO+nJdlFUbZI7cz/Td9z8nHjMcWYF IQuTsWOLs/LBMTs+ANumibtw6UkiGVD3dfHJAOPNApjVr+M0P/lVmTeP8w0uVcd2syiaU5jB aht9CYATn+ytFGWZnBEEQFnqcibIaOrmoBLu2b3fKJEd8Jp7NHDSIdrvrMjYynmc6sZKUqH2 I1qOevaa8jUg7wlLJAWGfIqnu85kkqrVOkbNbk4TPub7VOqA6qG5GCNEIv6ZY7HLYd/vAkVY E8Plzq/NwLAuOWxvGrOl7OPuwVeR4hBDfcrNb990MFPpjGgACzAZyjdmYoMu8j3/MAEW4P0z F5+EYJAOZ+z212y1pchNNauehORXgjrNKsZwxwKpPY9qb84E3O9KYpwfATsqOoQ6tTgr+1BR CCwP712H+E9U5HJ0iibN/CDZFVPL1bRerHziuwuQuvE0qWg0+0SChFe9oq0KAwEkVs6ZDMB2 P16MieEEQ6StQRlvy2YBv80L1TMl3T90Bo1UUn6ARXEpcbFE0/aORH/jEXcRteb+vuik5UGY 5TsyLYdPur3TXm7XDBdmmyQVJjnJKYK9AQxj95KlXLVO38lczsFNBFRjzmoBEACyAxbvUEhd GDGNg0JhDdezyTdN8C9BFsdxyTLnSH31NRiyp1QtuxvcqGZjb2trDVuCbIzRrgMZLVgo3upr MIOx1CXEgmn23Zhh0EpdVHM8IKx9Z7V0r+rrpRWFE8/wQZngKYVi49PGoZj50ZEifEJ5qn/H Nsp2+Y+bTUjDdgWMATg9DiFMyv8fvoqgNsNyrrZTnSgoLzdxr89FGHZCoSoAK8gfgFHuO54B lI8QOfPDG9WDPJ66HCodjTlBEr/Cwq6GruxS5i2Y33YVqxvFvDa1tUtl+iJ2SWKS9kCai2DR 3BwVONJEYSDQaven/EHMlY1q8Vln3lGPsS11vSUK3QcNJjmrgYxH5KsVsf6PNRj9mp8Z1kIG qjRx08+nnyStWC0gZH6NrYyS9rpqH3j+hA2WcI7De51L4Rv9pFwzp161mvtc6eC/GxaiUGuH BNAVP0PY0fqvIC68p3rLIAW3f97uv4ce2RSQ7LbsPsimOeCo/5vgS6YQsj83E+AipPr09Caj 0hloj+hFoqiticNpmsxdWKoOsV0PftcQvBCCYuhKbZV9s5hjt9qn8CE86A5g5KqDf83Fxqm/ vXKgHNFHE5zgXGZnrmaf6resQzbvJHO0Fb0CcIohzrpPaL3YepcLDoCCgElGMGQjdCcSQ+Ci FCRl0Bvyj1YZUql+ZkptgGjikQARAQABwsFfBBgBAgAJBQJUY85qAhsMAAoJEGg1lTBwyZKw l4IQAIKHs/9po4spZDFyfDjunimEhVHqlUt7ggR1Hsl/tkvTSze8pI1P6dGp2XW6AnH1iayn yRcoyT0ZJ+Zmm4xAH1zqKjWplzqdb/dO28qk0bPso8+1oPO8oDhLm1+tY+cOvufXkBTm+whm +AyNTjaCRt6aSMnA/QHVGSJ8grrTJCoACVNhnXg/R0g90g8iV8Q+IBZyDkG0tBThaDdw1B2l asInUTeb9EiVfL/Zjdg5VWiF9LL7iS+9hTeVdR09vThQ/DhVbCNxVk+DtyBHsjOKifrVsYep WpRGBIAu3bK8eXtyvrw1igWTNs2wazJ71+0z2jMzbclKAyRHKU9JdN6Hkkgr2nPb561yjcB8 sIq1pFXKyO+nKy6SZYxOvHxCcjk2fkw6UmPU6/j/nQlj2lfOAgNVKuDLothIxzi8pndB8Jju KktE5HJqUUMXePkAYIxEQ0mMc8Po7tuXdejgPMwgP7x65xtfEqI0RuzbUioFltsp1jUaRwQZ MTsCeQDdjpgHsj+P2ZDeEKCbma4m6Ez/YWs4+zDm1X8uZDkZcfQlD9NldbKDJEXLIjYWo1PH hYepSffIWPyvBMBTW2W5FRjJ4vLRrJSUoEfJuPQ3vW9Y73foyo/qFoURHO48AinGPZ7PC7TF vUaNOTjKedrqHkaOcqB185ahG2had0xnFsDPlx5y In-Reply-To: <176290472743.634289.7009461719971062344@noble.neil.brown.name> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 11/11/25 15:45, NeilBrown wrote: ... >> +Kernel contributors have been using tooling to generate contributions >> +for a long time. These tools are constantly becoming more capable and >> +undoubtedly improve developer productivity. At the same time, reviewer >> +and maintainer bandwidth is a very scarce resource. Understanding >> +which portions of a contribution come from humans versus tools is >> +critical to maintain those resources and keep kernel development >> +healthy. > > "critical"? Really? > If I use "sed" to create a patch, it might be helpful for you to know > that, but not critical. I'll tone that down a bit. > I also like the focus on "helping the reviewer". That too is > foundational. > > When submitting a patch you will benefit from efforts to build trust > with the maintainer, and anything you do to help the review process > run smoothly will help your patch get accepted. Some guidelines for > how this applies with respect to tool-assisted patch creation, and LLM > (aka AI) in particular, are below. To me, this veers a bit into a different area, which is explaining how trust is important. ...>> + - Treat it just like any other contribution >> + - Reject it outright > > If I find that a maintainer might reject my tool-based submission > outright, I might be tempted towards less transparency. > I don't think we should legitimise this sort of response by listing it > here. I agree that this might steer an unscrupulous contributor into being less transparent. But, I don't think this document is aimed at those contributors in the first place. They key question is whether maintainers in our project should have the ability to reject a patch just because it was generated by a tool. I think it would be silly for a maintainer to outright reject every bit of content that was generated by a tool. But, it's equally silly to say that maintainers should not have the ability to say that "tool $XYZ has no place in the $ABC subsystem". Maintainers can always say: "No". If they say it too much or for the wrong reasons, we have a benevolent dictator for such situations. >> + - Review the contribution with extra scrutiny >> + - Suggest a better prompt instead of suggesting specific code changes >> + - Ask for some other special steps, like asking the contributor to >> + elaborate on how the tool or model was trained >> + - Ask the submitter to explain in more detail about the contribution >> + so that the maintainer can feel comfortable that the submitter fully >> + understands how the code works. > > This last point contains an important idea that I think could be > highlighted more. The submitter needs to understand, and be able to > defend, the submission; both its motivation and its content. > "A tool generated the patch" is useful information but never an excuse > for not understanding it. This is fleshed out a bit more in v3. I hope you're able to take a look at that when I post it as well.