From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from desiato.infradead.org (desiato.infradead.org [90.155.92.199]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DDF75357A50; Fri, 9 Jan 2026 09:26:04 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=90.155.92.199 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1767950768; cv=none; b=OBeZcnpBz/PeKUIwNw+Ey4S4UNidYjpCzgyMcPfrt288MkUhueZ0hJkGvnOf6UMb5obgGHYyx+v5lRBlmjdAXUBXO2FHbR5j1eygUAfaMGjL69M4HJeBcNwBibTW3/iIesnWt3ouuy+5uOWZaHAJLnKVWaKlAWhKpAQ9/eY8ICA= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1767950768; c=relaxed/simple; bh=8jAejCTMBqRj/zTJElggrFjYxpaPRAiXv9AdmoVr1Yk=; h=Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References: Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=LKz0ChYcGaofSPJGUwrQHdk/8l99GvvFva9gH044QiryeBXMbLaB9PJaFnWj9drDcpbrYQ3dGB83+4Wpg0rP9Q8VsvW3kgF61Vad1MfvnpZyZqiRO4AyZkvFyToxrr89ApppueelUpcEb5qIDjnKpVlwg6UQ/J2mu5YSIPHUFkc= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=infradead.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=desiato.srs.infradead.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=infradead.org header.i=@infradead.org header.b=fvtvMDXk; arc=none smtp.client-ip=90.155.92.199 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=infradead.org Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=desiato.srs.infradead.org Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=infradead.org header.i=@infradead.org header.b="fvtvMDXk" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infradead.org; s=desiato.20200630; h=MIME-Version:Content-Type:References: In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description; bh=8jAejCTMBqRj/zTJElggrFjYxpaPRAiXv9AdmoVr1Yk=; b=fvtvMDXk2JQLYyCP/k0OTso7mZ Zj2IKi40uVaXHzxNkHhLSwDKJvxMvPC82JwzTxNvNhD9eHT9fXDwiMsxrkvHix8tqdrO3p0Wi0dIR ajPulRACZykMJdbTaE9DUIBwZ+fDS5bcNiOVrsmpdz4doYrt/l6S3Quna202MEGhcfD7NR0JB/pCZ 0k+SYLuaqx7MpvDoCHRfV8iWFDPNVGBu6kmvsTo4GD5bi2n6hHzscslQL9xUOKQb53rGdHgmSr3G7 QkaEI0sX6Dwh0gET1zXFWgWq/ggpIq2PO8+MNhlWVrWfBElAlmy0GWzXQoQP1O8XmiVnAzuKBGMYX a/2Np23g==; Received: from [15.248.2.252] (helo=u09cd745991455d.ant.amazon.com) by desiato.infradead.org with esmtpsa (Exim 4.98.2 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1ve8ki-0000000EtSm-0OWO; Fri, 09 Jan 2026 09:25:52 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCH net-next v5 1/2] ptp: introduce Alibaba CIPU PHC driver From: David Woodhouse To: Wen Gu , Jakub Kicinski Cc: Thomas Gleixner , Richard Cochran , andrew+netdev@lunn.ch, davem@davemloft.net, edumazet@google.com, pabeni@redhat.com, xuanzhuo@linux.alibaba.com, dust.li@linux.alibaba.com, netdev@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2026 10:25:51 +0100 In-Reply-To: <3e137dbb-4299-4adf-9e19-b78ce6cfe4c8@linux.alibaba.com> References: <20251030121314.56729-1-guwen@linux.alibaba.com> <20251030121314.56729-2-guwen@linux.alibaba.com> <20251031165820.70353b68@kernel.org> <8a74f801-1de5-4a1d-adc7-66a91221485d@linux.alibaba.com> <20251105162429.37127978@kernel.org> <34b30157-6d67-46ec-abde-da9087fbf318@linux.alibaba.com> <20251127083610.6b66a728@kernel.org> <20251128102437.7657f88f@kernel.org> <9a75e3b2-4d1c-4911-81e4-cab988c24b77@linux.alibaba.com> <20251213075028.2f570f23@kernel.org> <20251216135848.174e010f@kernel.org> <957500e7-5753-488d-872d-4dbbdcac0bb2@linux.alibaba.com> <20260102115136.239806fa@kernel.org> <3e137dbb-4299-4adf-9e19-b78ce6cfe4c8@linux.alibaba.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="sha-256"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; boundary="=-3TwAc/IFG4QDX7SXHUa/" User-Agent: Evolution 3.52.3-0ubuntu1.1 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-SRS-Rewrite: SMTP reverse-path rewritten from by desiato.infradead.org. See http://www.infradead.org/rpr.html --=-3TwAc/IFG4QDX7SXHUa/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, 2026-01-04 at 14:11 +0800, Wen Gu wrote: >=20 >=20 > On 2026/1/3 03:51, Jakub Kicinski wrote: > > On Mon, 22 Dec 2025 15:18:19 +0800 Wen Gu wrote: > > > The same applies to ptp_cipu, since it is already used and relies on > > > exposing /dev/ptpX. > >=20 > > IIUC you mean that the driver is already used downstream and abandoning > > PTP will break the OOT users? This is a non-argument upstream. > >=20 >=20 > I know. >=20 > My point is that I hope ptp_cipu can use the PTP interface as these > existing drivers, because many user programs and their ecosystems > depend on the PTP interface, such as chrony, or other user programs > based on `/dev/ptp*`. A new clock class device node will break this, > requiring changes to all these user programs, otherwise they can't > use the clock. >=20 > > > Given the historical baggage, it seems better to keep using the > > > existing ptp framework, but separate these pure phc drivers into a > > > new subsystem with a dedicated directory (e.g. drivers/phc/) and a > > > MAINTAINERS entry, moving them out of the netdev maintenance scope. > > > This should also address the concern that these pure phc drivers are > > > not a good fit to be maintained under the networking subsystem. > >=20 > > I'd rather you left PTP completely alone with your funny read only > > clocks. Please and thank you. >=20 > What you call 'funny' read only clocks have existed as PTP clocks for > a long time, and there are many examples, such as ptp_kvm, ptp_vmw > and ptp_s390. It also exists outside the drivers/ptp directory, such > as drivers/hv/hv_util.c[1]. And there are also recent examples, such > as drivers/virtio/virtio_rtc_ptp.c[2]. Even the PTP interface definition > does not require that the ability to set the time must be supported. > So I think the clock itself, as well as the use of the PTP interface > is reasonable and not funny. >=20 > IIUC, the main block is that you don't want to maintain these pure > phc clocks, as you mentioned in [3]. I agree with this as well. So I > propose to group these pure phc drivers together (e.g. drivers/phc) > and move them from the network maintenance domain to the clock maintenanc= e > domain. I think that makes sense. These clocks can still be registered as PTP clocks because that's one of the most sensible interfaces to userspace, but the implementations can live elsewhere outside the networking maintenance domain. In a lot of cases we'd want to use them for RTC too, so that the kernel's CLOCK_REALTIME can be initialised from them. And especially for microvms I'd like to *synchronize* the kernel's clock from them automatically too. --=-3TwAc/IFG4QDX7SXHUa/ Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCCD9Aw ggSOMIIDdqADAgECAhAOmiw0ECVD4cWj5DqVrT9PMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAMGUxCzAJBgNVBAYT AlVTMRUwEwYDVQQKEwxEaWdpQ2VydCBJbmMxGTAXBgNVBAsTEHd3dy5kaWdpY2VydC5jb20xJDAi BgNVBAMTG0RpZ2lDZXJ0IEFzc3VyZWQgSUQgUm9vdCBDQTAeFw0yNDAxMzAwMDAwMDBaFw0zMTEx MDkyMzU5NTlaMEExCzAJBgNVBAYTAkFVMRAwDgYDVQQKEwdWZXJva2V5MSAwHgYDVQQDExdWZXJv a2V5IFNlY3VyZSBFbWFpbCBHMjCCASIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggEPADCCAQoCggEBAMjvgLKj jfhCFqxYyRiW8g3cNFAvltDbK5AzcOaR7yVzVGadr4YcCVxjKrEJOgi7WEOH8rUgCNB5cTD8N/Et GfZI+LGqSv0YtNa54T9D1AWJy08ZKkWvfGGIXN9UFAPMJ6OLLH/UUEgFa+7KlrEvMUupDFGnnR06 aDJAwtycb8yXtILj+TvfhLFhafxroXrflspavejQkEiHjNjtHnwbZ+o43g0/yxjwnarGI3kgcak7 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