From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lamorak.hansenpartnership.com (lamorak.hansenpartnership.com [198.37.111.173]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4575517B50F; Thu, 5 Jun 2025 12:22:12 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=198.37.111.173 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1749126144; cv=none; b=Vei/UvXStXeRuz5rJvga51GlCCGCv2ZU3V7Jkqct5VflUwoz5uFgg+6k3mJYmAG+mRhbnFV4pLjtgbMNKLSfvAtDNUS/zopENQRbZ9I6oPpCpVXL1seXPRnLDuQetD8Yi3JFRkTz3IRPdvmO7YkfXcz8uaByh8ZgqPGYuyUb2Bk= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1749126144; c=relaxed/simple; bh=u9OCLNQeWEEsiLhWKXJ6VTlAtli3OhGnd5wDh69fqeI=; h=Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References: Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=iPLA7tZJPGaVleqR4yos0EJ2YGAg1jpIZNLdKAEkWXJPjVlJLUlAEJDVIll+V9aML9ZbSKcONexyYP0M9SKNtkZZM2agiiSzVXCqIQErCRmAxCpTYxk6PToyxtPwoqFVlTnqXLcovJUiLboycPCO3dvEv615J3u9nFnKFv8jIsE= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=quarantine dis=none) header.from=HansenPartnership.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=HansenPartnership.com; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=hansenpartnership.com header.i=@hansenpartnership.com header.b=CeygizHW; arc=none smtp.client-ip=198.37.111.173 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=quarantine dis=none) header.from=HansenPartnership.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=HansenPartnership.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=hansenpartnership.com header.i=@hansenpartnership.com header.b="CeygizHW" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=hansenpartnership.com; s=20151216; t=1749126130; bh=u9OCLNQeWEEsiLhWKXJ6VTlAtli3OhGnd5wDh69fqeI=; h=Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=CeygizHWYkXbN0qo8qQUrbpQqQQ3EbGuqas3RRPYHyJmvYphcVC/CAmG4YODFxwgU XEKWXLp3OUdU7fhmPzpuN/B9tgjC68F7eSwwV2IsgwTdcD/9BqCgmsJAFN8oX69ZMR sHL9alzsj+qS3jiQ0Ep4VoYik+d+iZLDRxZTzvE0= Received: from [IPv6:2601:5c4:4302:c21::a774] (unknown [IPv6:2601:5c4:4302:c21::a774]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange x25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by lamorak.hansenpartnership.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 23A4F1C02FB; Thu, 05 Jun 2025 08:22:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC 0/1] module: Optionally use .platform keyring for signatures verification From: James Bottomley To: Vitaly Kuznetsov , Eric Snowberg Cc: "linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org" , "linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org" , "linux-modules@vger.kernel.org" , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" , "linux-doc@vger.kernel.org" , "keyrings@vger.kernel.org" , David Howells , David Woodhouse , Jonathan Corbet , Luis Chamberlain , Petr Pavlu , Sami Tolvanen , Daniel Gomez , Mimi Zohar , Roberto Sassu , Dmitry Kasatkin , Paul Moore , James Morris , "Serge E. Hallyn" , Peter Jones , Robert Holmes , Jeremy Cline , Coiby Xu , Gerd Hoffmann Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2025 08:22:09 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87zfemoc76.fsf@redhat.com> References: <20250602132535.897944-1-vkuznets@redhat.com> <0FD18D05-6114-4A25-BD77-C32C1D706CC3@oracle.com> <87zfemoc76.fsf@redhat.com> Autocrypt: addr=James.Bottomley@HansenPartnership.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; 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 8mT2Eh9SkH+YVOmaKsajgZgrBxA7fWmGoxXswEVxJIFj3vW7yNc0C5HaUdYa5iGOMs4kg2ht4s7yy7NRQuh7BifWjo6BQ6k4S1H+6axZucxhSV1L6zN9d+lr3Xo/vy1unzA== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Evolution 3.50.3 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 On Thu, 2025-06-05 at 09:54 +0200, Vitaly Kuznetsov wrote: > One additional consideration is the fact that we already trust 'db' > for dm-verity (since 6fce1f40e951) and kexec (since 278311e417be) and > especially the later gives someone who is able to control 'db' access > to CPL0; a 'db'-signed module (IMO) wouldn't change much. Well, the kexec case is because kexec has to verify the new kernel as shim would and shim would use the UEFI keys. The dm-verity one was added for a cloud use case by pressuring the maintainers in spite of the objection to using the platform keyring (it went to dm-devel only so not many integrity people saw it): https://lore.kernel.org/all/20240617220037.594792-1-luca.boccassi@gmail.com= / The point here is I do think the cloud use case is legitimate, but it can't be supported simply by ignoring the bare metal security domain separation concerns of the integrity community. The argument that distros have done it so it must be safe isn't really a winning one (especially as there's no clear explanation of why they did it). So either you need a better argument or we need a way to support both sets of communities ... which is why I was wondering about a runtime differentiator. ' Regards, James