From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lamorak.hansenpartnership.com (lamorak.hansenpartnership.com [198.37.111.173]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CF81B37DEB5; Fri, 5 Jun 2026 18:29:14 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=198.37.111.173 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1780684156; cv=none; b=XugMuQFceTIiecJFAissiKkHZoMx6gYUG9iNt/lEcceDPP/OlAhiR4un/B91CEYuxrgbJgg/hUl09kz06C6QzW1N1b9zTO9iqR1rJVVb8yZ1RmrR5Qpyd6kCBkopaAV+dICWUSfX7XQPd1N1ST4hwEmJVib3zWcJHm2d6VVPhAM= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1780684156; c=relaxed/simple; bh=pxXyFkSQfVEU4LrpYBw4Ws5o0ixDm2veIsC0NFL41xM=; h=Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References: Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=oKkX3lq5zAzj/TkLEbhwQptBO6x9ObGCTpmIqA9fGjZZlg3sU8tc/AzbwcQ2uqzKkJUlEw6z4FSdz4xfwVKuZmN141bjJmctfDyEpDsLxHoR6ieenJbq9BN9fWQnHLYiQW6nxv07YqS7xQ7B1aAYjccl01eO9nUV5lnp+Qcf+98= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=quarantine dis=none) header.from=HansenPartnership.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=HansenPartnership.com; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=hansenpartnership.com header.i=@hansenpartnership.com header.b=vsbUWacv; arc=none smtp.client-ip=198.37.111.173 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=quarantine dis=none) header.from=HansenPartnership.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=HansenPartnership.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=hansenpartnership.com header.i=@hansenpartnership.com header.b="vsbUWacv" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=hansenpartnership.com; s=20151216; t=1780684153; bh=pxXyFkSQfVEU4LrpYBw4Ws5o0ixDm2veIsC0NFL41xM=; h=Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=vsbUWacvMUDvItE1V8UkTCKLvEcTavyW7UMKZgDQc34vThJDYWfgk0xodAZ5NuNxZ FeUuE3DJ41bMY9p+wPVkCrzEZAMAuzQYP+t9AEViCpwSnrenevhSxjF61wlvGgUKAB ow74SSxIjj0bksu3ESP3s3TK3GPT96UhW9Y9UJZU= Received: from lingrow.int.hansenpartnership.com (unknown [IPv6:2601:5c4:4300:d341::8c71]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange x25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by lamorak.hansenpartnership.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2B4951C0400; Fri, 05 Jun 2026 14:29:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: -next status as at v7.1-rc6 From: James Bottomley To: "Serge E. Hallyn" , Linus Torvalds Cc: Paul Moore , linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, Mark Brown , Blaise Boscaccy , Alexei Starovoitov , linux-next@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2026 14:29:12 -0400 In-Reply-To: References: <83f77b2b-8c00-424d-b6f9-b044e7ea1ee7@sirena.org.uk> Autocrypt: addr=James.Bottomley@HansenPartnership.com; 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AHBLpBdnl9SOe8ETkv6GqbZrXUED/dAbRVIT5vHP51zyYB8rAUjp3PnzxsXFG8eQaacEyKSl0DKDlgKuQ+k292LVGJhEva8z4cwg3JcrQWzbpTRskQRP624aQ7t0LKbNfXqfYT13TvZNTDdjQaCJRJ3EG8uXOszVKuc0guXunZPmmq6x1Y3bOfOezcFYoywwL3nKef+Z5sQrjG3/5NLeu+W Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Evolution 3.50.3 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 On Fri, 2026-06-05 at 08:45 -0500, Serge E. Hallyn wrote: > On Thu, Jun 04, 2026 at 04:18:46PM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote: > > On Thu, 4 Jun 2026 at 15:23, Paul Moore > > wrote: > > >=20 > > > While you didn't reply to any of my comments explaining how > > > Hornet works, specifically how it ties into the kernel, I'm > > > assuming you've read the overview.=C2=A0 Can you help those of us in > > > the LSM space understand why a BPF dev's NACK on code that lives > > > strictly under security/ is sufficient grounds to reject an LSM > > > patch? > >=20 > > Honestly, I'm not competent to make a judgment call between two > > different models for hash chain verification, so I basically *have* > > to go by maintainer opinions. > >=20 > > And the discussions I have been cc'd on have not been what I'd call > > enlightening. > >=20 > > But people have pointed out that the LSM code mucks around with bpf > > internals, and those NAK's have had reasons for them. > >=20 > > And honestly, I don't understand *why* Hornet does what it does - > > and does it in ways that obviously annoy the bpf people. There is > > no *reason* to look at the bpf maps that I can see, and from my > > understanding of Alexei's arguments (which may be lacking), the > > fact that Hornet does that is the main reason for the NAK. >=20 > The two most useful threads I believe were from a year ago, > 20250502184421.1424368-1-bboscaccy@linux.microsoft.com > and > 20250528215037.2081066-1-bboscaccy@linux.microsoft.com > which includes the proposal by the BPF side: > https://lore.kernel.org/linux-security-module/CACYkzJ6VQUExfyt0=3D-FmXz46= GHJh3d=3DFXh5j4KfexcEFbHV-vg@mail.gmail.com/ >=20 > There were 2 or three objections from each side iiuc, but the main > ones that stuck in my mind were >=20 > 1. whether it is ok to rely on a signed userspace bpf verifier > program to > =C2=A0=C2=A0 verify the signature. > 2. objection by James Bottomley=20 > =C2=A0=C2=A0 > (2f71d6c03698eb17d51f7247efde777627ee578a.camel@HansenPartnership.com > ) > =C2=A0=C2=A0 about the verifiability of the hash chain link. My objection to the upstream signature scheme in that email was that if you hand me a lskel consisting of a loader and a map and ask me to sign it, how do I know the loader actually verifies the hash of the map without having to disassemble and analyze it. I think the second patch set (not yet upstream) makes that task easier because it now calls out to the bpf_loader_verify_metadata() kfunc to verify the map. That means I can run the loader in a sandbox and see if it makes the call, which is way easier than having to disassemble and analyse its byte code. Note: it's still not as easy as the hornet method of simply having the map hash as a signed attribute I can extract and verify, though. However, the required task has gone from pretty impossible to doable. Regards, James