From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from casper.infradead.org (casper.infradead.org [90.155.50.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 38EEB29D268; Tue, 11 Aug 2026 17:22:29 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=90.155.50.34 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1786468951; cv=none; b=e3Gag6pAWLHMJ4JkqfryyPEK9CsvnPfeEjsX7joBk4xxkFBfEfyGnyjHokq8m6TWsRnxpvn1d5pCeEBHmGS8j6pqql/6KbL9DEMu4ADuSAaGPZOFz6LQkP+Qu0EfzlC+zQHKx3ZDWEPIu4DHEbuJkxgkGnw3Q2fp2sbrgoLk5I0= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1786468951; c=relaxed/simple; bh=B4A7wsoyClOPAXnWX7gglBA8XKkMwmFWASY4ut8eHZU=; h=Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:in-reply-to:Content-Type: MIME-Version; b=NheU+TPlp+0jQzxUB7IHOGd9SxH+DPQYDy4zSBVEJLO9biXXbwGJOjG1Hquc2BjXjKp5MTdPFXySxUA6T+YHJxx+n1u2J3ZrexTckCuHAwFUSCWt0+7upU1YYAv0jqXkk8gfWNyspzUKGh5YYglB+ngz56edvUgfZ3CNeGSKqjg= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=infradead.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=casper.srs.infradead.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=infradead.org header.i=@infradead.org header.b=lxtb5E6f; arc=none smtp.client-ip=90.155.50.34 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=infradead.org Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=casper.srs.infradead.org Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=infradead.org header.i=@infradead.org header.b="lxtb5E6f" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infradead.org; s=casper.20170209; h=MIME-Version:Content-Type:in-reply-to: Date:Cc:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:References; bh=B4A7wsoyClOPAXnWX7gglBA8XKkMwmFWASY4ut8eHZU=; b=lxtb5E6fwv4Z0IzhGrzTvW3l9h 1FibwgNLtrKE3cL2HAnJDmP4iG5S9H1b7aXhmaBSnS3ng2BWGahlU8v7JYkgFM/vrY0RwXD3plB+1 XvOrq8uz7M5QRx5wQbUCW5HKaCt5VyQ+SEHgy2bgMn3Zux8DsrvkXqxxv2yAYbHlwu17X1BrgrVz2 CRRDCKBddF24fRdk9/m9FAWWl9szEM2d8ZCLcN0eN4xHf928CV/O1uB4nfh4aJdK/ZSQU/efrLuib Fu4FVDnOAQftirUUZ+Qtqrura+J+9ddTERKPSnmF1tYVINPNiJc7QAprKgKVdeUIgl8Xl8UgSXvHJ fHN08L8A==; Received: from 54-240-197-227.amazon.com ([54.240.197.227] helo=u09cd745991455d.ant.amazon.com) by casper.infradead.org with esmtpsa (Exim 4.99.1 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1wtqB8-00000000lZR-1mQH; Tue, 11 Aug 2026 17:22:18 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCH] mm/mmu_notifier: Remove non_block_start/end() from notifier invocation From: David Woodhouse To: jgg@ziepe.ca Cc: akpm@linux-foundation.org, david@kernel.org, mhocko@suse.com, rostedt@goodmis.org, bigeasy@linutronix.de, simona.vetter@ffwll.ch, jglisse@redhat.com, christian.koenig@amd.com, paulmck@kernel.org, seanjc@google.com, pbonzini@redhat.com, linux-mm@kvack.org, kvm@vger.kernel.org, linux-rt-devel@lists.linux.dev, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2026 18:22:12 +0100 in-reply-to: <20260811162423.GL544626@ziepe.ca> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="sha-256"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; boundary="=-iI6osTXoBuApKidM5MUS" User-Agent: Evolution 3.60.3-0ubuntu1~ppa9~24.04 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-SRS-Rewrite: SMTP reverse-path rewritten from by casper.infradead.org. See http://www.infradead.org/rpr.html --=-iI6osTXoBuApKidM5MUS Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 2026-08-11 at 13:24 -0300, Jason Gunthorpe wrote: > To be clear you should not be using any synchronize_[s]rcu() primitive > inside the invalidation callbacks. These are well known to have > multi-second delays on loaded systems which are a completely > inappropriate performance characteristic for these mm callbacks. >=20 > This statement has nothing to do with deadlock. >=20 > RCU is always a trade off, you can make the read side run really fast > and the write side is ghastly slow. If you can't handle the slow write > you shouldn't use RCU techniques. The multi-second horror stories are about the *global* RCU/SRCU domains, where the grace period has to wait out arbitrary readers all over the kernel. This is not that. It is a dedicated srcu_struct, private to one VM, and its entire reader population is a handful of KVM fast paths that until now were under irqsave rwlocks. Each of those read-side sections is a few hundred instructions over a single page of guest memory =E2=80=94 they never allocate, never take a loc= k, never sleep. The number of readers in existence at any instant is bounded by the number of vCPUs plus a few interrupt contexts, and the grace period is bounded by the longest of those sections. I should actually change to synchronize_srcu_expedited() =E2=80=94 and perh= aps we could ponder an even more expedited mode which does the first check directly and in the common case doesn't even *use* the workqueue =E2=80=94 = but even without doing that, the write side is never going to be as "ghastly slow" as you seem to think, *even* for the tiny handful of virtual addresses for which it even kicks in at all. --=-iI6osTXoBuApKidM5MUS Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCCE8Ew ggWvMIIEl6ADAgECAhANkOKMSmGXhF5eMl0rsRhvMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBDAUAMGUxCzAJBgNVBAYT AlVTMRUwEwYDVQQKEwxEaWdpQ2VydCBJbmMxGTAXBgNVBAsTEHd3dy5kaWdpY2VydC5jb20xJDAi BgNVBAMTG0RpZ2lDZXJ0IEFzc3VyZWQgSUQgUm9vdCBHMjAeFw0yNDAzMTMwMDAwMDBaFw0zNDAz MTIyMzU5NTlaMGIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVTMRcwFQYDVQQKEw5EaWdpQ2VydCwgSW5jLjE6MDgGA1UE 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