From: Jonathan Morton <chromi@cyberspace.org>
To: esr@thyrsus.com, Arjan van de Ven <arjanv@redhat.com>
Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: CML2 design philosophy heads-up
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 16:59:47 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <l03130303b72af49d4f0a@[192.168.239.105]> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20010518112625.A14309@thyrsus.com>
In-Reply-To: <3B053B9B.23286E6C@redhat.com>; from arjanv@redhat.com on Fri, May 18, 2001 at 04:11:23PM +0100 <20010518034307.A10784@thyrsus.com> <E150fV9-0006q1-00@the-village.bc.nu> <20010518105353.A13684@thyrsus.com> <3B053B9B.23286E6C@redhat.com>
>> Aunt Tillie doesn't even know what a kernel is, nor does she want
>> to. I think it's fair to assume that people who configure and
>> compile their own kernel (as opposed to using the distribution
>> supplied ones) know what they are doing.
>
>I'd like to break these assumptions. Or at the very least see how far
>they can be bent. I know this sounds crazy to a lot of hackers, but
>I think there's a certain amount of unhelpful elitism and self-puffery
>in the "kernels are hard to configure and they *should* be hard to
>configure* attitude. Let's give Aunt Tillie a chance to surprise us.
Not everyone falls into the "expert user" and "Aunt Tillie" categories.
It's a *very* big grey area. If some semi-computer-literate user (ie. some
friends of mine!) wants to upgrade their kernel so they have access to
newer hardware (such as a cheap USB webcam), it should be made as simple as
possible for them. CML1 doesn't handle that very well, I'd like to see
it's replacement do better.
So, the first questions should be along the lines of "Do you have
(approximately) these kinds of standard configuration?" starting with "x86
PC", "Apple PowerMac" and other sensible defaults - followed by "none of
the above". Then later on, things like "Do you have SCSI?" followed by
"What type of SCSI card(s)". And under IDE configuration, we have "Do you
want IDE-SCSI emulation (useful for CD-writers and such)?" which turns on
SCSI without any of the card drivers.
The above strategy, if extended properly, would allow novice users to get
*something* which worked, more easily. More advanced users could then
fiddle with settings they knew about, and experiment. Those who *really*
know what they're up to can create a wholly customised setup by choosing
"none of the above", right at the beginning.
As for the language CML2 is written in, surely C would work just as well as
Python if the config-ruleset file is in a known format. GCC is required
for the kernel to build, I don't see why anything else should be required
simply to configure it.
--------------------------------------------------------------
from: Jonathan "Chromatix" Morton
mail: chromi@cyberspace.org (not for attachments)
big-mail: chromatix@penguinpowered.com
uni-mail: j.d.morton@lancaster.ac.uk
The key to knowledge is not to rely on people to teach you it.
Get VNC Server for Macintosh from http://www.chromatix.uklinux.net/vnc/
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-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2001-05-18 16:01 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 154+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2001-05-05 23:27 Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-06 12:58 ` Alan Cox
2001-05-07 17:59 ` Tom Rini
2001-05-07 21:57 ` Alan Cox
2001-05-08 9:44 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-08 12:42 ` Helge Hafting
2001-05-08 1:31 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-08 1:43 ` Tom Rini
2001-05-08 1:56 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-08 6:57 ` David Weinehall
2001-05-08 7:00 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-08 6:59 ` Jamie Lokier
2001-05-08 7:15 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-08 14:15 ` Rogier Wolff
2001-05-13 14:22 ` Jes Sorensen
2001-05-13 15:25 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-15 14:43 ` Pavel Machek
2001-05-17 7:26 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-17 7:47 ` Keith Owens
2001-05-17 9:35 ` Michael Meissner
2001-05-17 16:34 ` Tom Rini
2001-05-18 7:43 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-18 8:20 ` Alan Cox
2001-05-18 14:53 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-18 14:06 ` David Lang
2001-05-18 15:09 ` Keith Owens
2001-05-18 15:19 ` Arjan van de Ven
2001-05-18 15:39 ` Alan Cox
2001-05-18 15:58 ` [kbuild-devel] " Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-18 16:01 ` Alan Cox
2001-05-18 16:34 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-18 16:43 ` Christoph Hellwig
2001-05-18 16:45 ` Arjan van de Ven
2001-05-18 17:17 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-18 17:22 ` Arjan van de Ven
2001-05-18 17:25 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-19 5:54 ` Ben Ford
2001-05-18 17:33 ` Alan Cox
2001-05-18 18:25 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-18 19:13 ` Alan Cox
2001-05-18 19:44 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-18 20:38 ` Alan Cox
2001-05-19 1:49 ` Aaron Lehmann
2001-05-18 19:12 ` Jes Sorensen
2001-05-18 15:11 ` Arjan van de Ven
2001-05-18 15:26 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-18 15:34 ` Charles Cazabon
2001-05-18 14:30 ` David Lang
2001-05-18 15:47 ` Charles Cazabon
2001-05-18 15:42 ` Alan Cox
2001-05-19 5:44 ` Ben Ford
2001-05-19 6:40 ` Pete Zaitcev
2001-05-19 10:10 ` Ben Ford
2001-05-19 10:55 ` Arjan van de Ven
2001-05-19 16:13 ` Alan Cox
2001-05-19 21:54 ` Ben Ford
2001-05-20 0:08 ` Alan Cox
2001-05-18 15:37 ` Arjan van de Ven
2001-05-18 15:49 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-18 16:16 ` Arjan van de Ven
2001-05-18 17:04 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-20 11:19 ` David Woodhouse
2001-05-20 15:18 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-20 15:34 ` Keith Owens
2001-05-20 15:34 ` David Woodhouse
2001-05-20 15:44 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-20 18:31 ` Background to the argument about CML2 design philosophy Jonathan Morton
2001-05-20 20:13 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-20 15:56 ` CML2 design philosophy heads-up David Woodhouse
2001-05-20 17:14 ` Background to the argument about CML2 design philosophy Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-21 0:45 ` Jes Sorensen
2001-05-21 9:14 ` Helge Hafting
2001-05-21 11:32 ` Jonathan Morton
2001-05-22 20:38 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-21 12:15 ` David Woodhouse
2001-05-21 12:31 ` Alan Cox
2001-05-21 23:11 ` Jonathan Morton
2001-05-20 17:47 ` David Woodhouse
2001-05-20 20:47 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-20 20:59 ` Arjan van de Ven
2001-05-20 22:51 ` David Woodhouse
2001-05-21 1:13 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-21 6:41 ` David Woodhouse
2001-05-21 10:04 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-21 11:05 ` David Woodhouse
2001-05-22 13:45 ` David Woodhouse
2001-05-22 17:17 ` David Woodhouse
2001-05-22 16:21 ` John Stoffel
2001-05-21 3:33 ` Nicolas Pitre
2001-05-21 20:38 ` John Stoffel
2001-05-22 0:59 ` Keith Owens
2001-05-22 9:24 ` Daniel Phillips
2001-05-23 1:51 ` Keith Owens
2001-05-21 23:00 ` Jonathan Morton
2001-05-20 20:59 ` David Woodhouse
2001-05-20 21:10 ` Robert M. Love
2001-05-21 3:38 ` Nicolas Pitre
2001-05-18 17:07 ` CML2 design philosophy heads-up Daniel Phillips
2001-05-18 15:38 ` Alan Cox
2001-05-18 16:04 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-18 16:09 ` [kbuild-devel] " Christoph Hellwig
2001-05-18 16:43 ` Michael Meissner
2001-05-18 17:13 ` Arjan van de Ven
2001-05-18 17:22 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-18 17:42 ` Christoph Hellwig
2001-05-18 17:42 ` Alan Cox
2001-05-18 18:28 ` John Cowan
2001-05-18 17:23 ` Alan Cox
2001-05-18 17:41 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-18 15:54 ` Christer Weinigel
2001-05-18 15:59 ` Jonathan Morton [this message]
2001-05-18 16:17 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-18 17:35 ` Mike Galbraith
2001-05-18 20:03 ` Alan Cox
2001-05-18 16:02 ` [kbuild-devel] " Kai Germaschewski
2001-05-18 19:12 ` frank
2001-05-15 20:32 ` Jes Sorensen
2001-05-15 21:33 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-18 15:19 ` Jes Sorensen
2001-05-18 15:37 ` Justin Carlson
2001-05-18 15:42 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-18 15:53 ` Alan Cox
2001-05-18 15:51 ` [kbuild-devel] " John Cowan
2001-05-18 15:58 ` Christoph Hellwig
2001-05-18 16:00 ` John Cowan
2001-05-18 17:15 ` Mike Castle
2001-05-18 17:28 ` Christoph Hellwig
2001-05-21 0:29 ` Jes Sorensen
2001-05-21 1:58 ` Mike Castle
2001-05-21 6:33 ` Ben Ford
2001-05-21 9:55 ` Jes Sorensen
2001-05-21 16:59 ` Mike Castle
2001-05-21 17:03 ` Alan Cox
2001-05-21 7:21 ` arjan
2001-05-21 3:47 ` Nicolas Pitre
2001-05-21 2:10 ` Robert M. Love
2001-05-21 2:35 ` Jakob Østergaard
2001-05-21 5:01 ` Mike Galbraith
2001-05-21 9:58 ` Jes Sorensen
2001-05-21 15:36 ` Tom Rini
2001-05-21 16:24 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-21 6:11 ` Mike A. Harris
2001-05-21 12:08 ` Robert M. Love
2001-05-21 12:29 ` Alan Cox
2001-05-21 16:39 ` Brent D. Norris
2001-05-21 17:48 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-05-21 15:18 ` Wichert Akkerman
2001-05-21 15:21 ` Alan Cox
2001-05-21 15:52 ` Alexander Viro
2001-05-18 16:22 ` Steven Cole
[not found] ` <0105210958040I.10237@spc.esa.lanl.gov>
[not found] ` <20010521090130.F9965@opus.bloom.county>
2001-05-21 16:13 ` Steven Cole
2001-05-18 17:10 ` Ruth Ivimey-Cook
2001-05-13 16:44 Matthew Wilcox
[not found] <mailman.990207420.8659.linux-kernel2news@redhat.com>
2001-05-18 22:18 ` Pete Zaitcev
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