mirror of https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: stoffel@lucent.com
To: Bill Davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
Cc: stoffel@lucent.com,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: Backups done right (was [ANNOUNCE] Ext3 vs Reiserfs benchmarks)
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:50:15 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <15670.58295.8003.858959@gargle.gargle.HOWL> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1020718105612.7522B-100000@gatekeeper.tmr.com>


Bill> On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 stoffel@lucent.com wrote:
>> 3a. lock mirrored volume, flush any outstanding transactions, break
>> mirror.
>> --or--
>> 3b. snapshot filesystem to another volume.

Bill> Good summary. The problem is that 3a either requires a double
Bill> morror or leaving the f/s un mirrored, and 3b can take a very
Bill> long time for a big f/s.

Yup, 3a isn't a totally perfect solution, though triple mirrors (if
you can afford them) work well.  We actually do this for some servers
where we can't afford the application down time of locking the DB for
extended times, but we also don't have triple mirrors either.  It's a
tradeoff.

I really prefer 3b, since it's more efficient, faster, and more
robust.  To snapshot a filesystem, all you need to do is:

 - create backing store for the snapshot, usually around 10-15% of the
   size of the original volume.  Depends on volatility of data.
 - lock the app(s).
 - lock the filesystem and flush pending transactions.
 - copy the metadata describing the filesystem
 - insert a COW handler into the FS block write path
 - mount the snapshot elsewhere
 - unlock the FS
 - unlock the app

Whenever the app writes a block into the FS, copy the original block
to the backing store, then write the new block to storage.  

All the backups see if the quiescent data store, so it can do a clean
backup.  

When you're done, just unmount the snapshot and delete it, then remove
the backing store.  There is an overhead for doing this, but it's
better than having to unmirror/remirror whole block devices to do a
backup.  And cheaper in terms of disk space too. 

Bill> In general mauch of this can be addressed by only backing up
Bill> small f/s and using an application backup utility to backup the
Bill> big stuff. Fortunately the most common problem apps are
Bill> databases and and they include this capability.

Define what a small file system is these days, since it could be 100gb
for some people.  *grin*.  It's a matter of making the tools scale
well so that the data can be secured properly.  

To do a proper backup requires that all layers talk to each other, and
have some means of doing a RW lock and flush of pending transactions.
If you have that, you can do it.  If you don't, you need to either
goto single user mode, re-mount RO, or pray.

John

  parent reply	other threads:[~2002-07-18 15:48 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 64+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2002-07-12 16:21 [ANNOUNCE] Ext3 vs Reiserfs benchmarks Dax Kelson
2002-07-12 17:05 ` Andreas Dilger
2002-07-12 17:26   ` kwijibo
2002-07-12 17:36     ` Andreas Dilger
2002-07-12 20:34 ` Chris Mason
2002-07-13  4:44 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-07-14 20:40 ` Dax Kelson
2002-07-15  8:26   ` Sam Vilain
2002-07-15 12:30     ` Alan Cox
2002-07-15 12:02       ` Sam Vilain
2002-07-15 13:23         ` Alan Cox
2002-07-15 13:40           ` Chris Mason
2002-07-15 19:40             ` Andrew Morton
2002-07-15 15:12         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2002-07-15 16:03         ` Andreas Dilger
2002-07-15 16:12           ` Daniel Phillips
2002-07-15 17:48           ` Sam Vilain
2002-07-15 18:47             ` Mathieu Chouquet-Stringer
2002-07-15 19:26               ` Sam Vilain
2002-07-16  8:18               ` Stelian Pop
2002-07-16 12:22                 ` Gerhard Mack
2002-07-16 12:49                   ` Stelian Pop
2002-07-16 15:11                     ` Gerhard Mack
2002-07-16 15:22                       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2002-07-16 15:39                       ` Stelian Pop
2002-07-16 19:45                         ` Matthias Andree
2002-07-16 20:04                           ` Shawn
2002-07-16 20:11                             ` Mathieu Chouquet-Stringer
2002-07-16 20:22                               ` Shawn
2002-07-16 20:27                                 ` Mathieu Chouquet-Stringer
2002-07-17 11:45                                 ` Matthias Andree
2002-07-17 19:02                                   ` Andreas Dilger
2002-07-18  9:29                                     ` Matthias Andree
2002-07-19  8:29                                     ` Matthias Andree
2002-07-19 16:39                                       ` Andreas Dilger
2002-07-19 20:01                                         ` Shawn
2002-07-19 20:47                                           ` Andreas Dilger
2002-07-15 21:14             ` Andreas Dilger
2002-07-17 18:41               ` bill davidsen
2002-07-17 19:47                 ` [ANNOUNCE] Ext3 vs Reiserfs benchmarks (whither dump?) Lew Wolfgang
2002-07-16  8:15             ` [ANNOUNCE] Ext3 vs Reiserfs benchmarks Stelian Pop
2002-07-16 12:27               ` Matthias Andree
2002-07-16 12:43                 ` Stelian Pop
2002-07-16 12:53                   ` Matthias Andree
2002-07-16 13:05                     ` Christoph Hellwig
2002-07-16 19:38                       ` Matthias Andree
2002-07-16 19:49                         ` Andreas Dilger
2002-07-16 20:11                         ` Thunder from the hill
2002-07-16 21:06                           ` Matthias Andree
2002-07-16 21:23                             ` Andreas Dilger
2002-07-16 21:38                               ` Thunder from the hill
2002-07-17 11:47                               ` Matthias Andree
2002-07-18 14:50                               ` Bill Davidsen
2002-07-18 15:09                                 ` Rik van Riel
2002-07-16 22:19                             ` Backups done right (was [ANNOUNCE] Ext3 vs Reiserfs benchmarks) stoffel
2002-07-16 22:33                               ` Thunder from the hill
2002-07-18 15:04                               ` Bill Davidsen
2002-07-18 15:27                                 ` Rik van Riel
2002-07-18 15:50                                 ` stoffel [this message]
2002-07-18 16:29                                   ` Bill Davidsen
2002-07-19 15:28                               ` Sam Vilain
2002-07-17 18:51                     ` [ANNOUNCE] Ext3 vs Reiserfs benchmarks bill davidsen
2002-07-18  9:32                       ` Matthias Andree
2002-07-15 12:09       ` Matti Aarnio

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=15670.58295.8003.858959@gargle.gargle.HOWL \
    --to=stoffel@lucent.com \
    --cc=davidsen@tmr.com \
    --cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox

all inboxes | Powered by JetHome®