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From: "David S. Miller" <davem@redhat.com>
To: hch@caldera.de
Cc: mingo@elte.hu, riel@conectiva.com.br, netdev@oss.sgi.com,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PLEASE-TESTME] Zerocopy networking patch, 2.4.0-1
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 03:42:47 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <200101091142.DAA01640@pizda.ninka.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20010109122810.A3115@caldera.de> (message from Christoph Hellwig on Tue, 9 Jan 2001 12:28:10 +0100)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101081603080.21675-100000@duckman.distro.conectiva> <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101091051460.1159-100000@e2> <20010109113145.A28758@caldera.de> <200101091031.CAA01242@pizda.ninka.net> <20010109122810.A3115@caldera.de>

   Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 12:28:10 +0100
   From: Christoph Hellwig <hch@caldera.de>

   Sure.  But sendfile is not one of the fundamental UNIX operations...

It's a fundamental Linux interface and VFS-->networking interface.

   An alloc_kiovec before and an free_kiovec after the actual call
   and the memory overhaed of a kiobuf won't hurt so much that it stands
   against a clean interface, IMHO.

This whole exercise is pointless unless it performs well.

The overhead _DOES_ matter, we've tested and profiled all of this with
full specweb99 runs, zerocopy ftp server loads, etc.  Removing one
word of information from anything involved in these code paths makes
enormous differences.  Have you run such tests with your suggested
kiobuf scheme?

Know what I really hate?  People who are talking, "almost done", and
"designing" the "real solution" to a problem and have no code to show
for it.  Ie. a total working implementation.  Often they have not one
line of code to show.

Then the folks who actually get off their lazy asses and make
something real, which works, and in fact exceeded most of our personal
performance expectations, are the ones who are getting told that what
they did was crap.

What was the first thing out of people's mouths?  Not "nice work", but
"I think writepage is ugly and an eyesore, I hope nobody seriously
considers this code for inclusion."  Keep designing... like Linus
says, "show me the code".

Later,
David S. Miller
davem@redhat.com
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  parent reply	other threads:[~2001-01-09 12:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 119+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2001-01-08 21:56 Jes Sorensen
2001-01-08  1:24 ` David S. Miller
2001-01-08 10:39   ` Christoph Hellwig
2001-01-08 10:34     ` David S. Miller
2001-01-08 18:05       ` Rik van Riel
2001-01-08 21:07         ` David S. Miller
2001-01-09 10:23         ` Ingo Molnar
2001-01-09 10:31           ` David S. Miller
2001-01-09 11:28             ` Christoph Hellwig
2001-01-09 12:04               ` Ingo Molnar
2001-01-09 14:25                 ` Stephen C. Tweedie
2001-01-09 14:33                   ` Alan Cox
2001-01-09 15:00                   ` Ingo Molnar
2001-01-09 15:27                     ` Stephen C. Tweedie
2001-01-09 16:16                       ` Ingo Molnar
2001-01-09 16:37                         ` Alan Cox
2001-01-09 16:48                           ` Ingo Molnar
2001-01-09 17:29                             ` Alan Cox
2001-01-09 17:38                               ` Jens Axboe
2001-01-09 18:38                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2001-01-09 19:54                                   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2001-01-09 20:10                                     ` Ingo Molnar
2001-01-10  0:00                                       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2001-01-09 20:12                                     ` Jens Axboe
2001-01-09 23:20                                       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2001-01-09 23:34                                         ` Jens Axboe
2001-01-09 23:52                                           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2001-01-17  5:16                                     ` Rik van Riel
2001-01-09 17:56                             ` Chris Evans
2001-01-09 18:41                               ` Ingo Molnar
2001-01-09 22:58                                 ` [patch]: ac4 blk (was Re: [PLEASE-TESTME] Zerocopy networking patch, 2.4.0-1) Jens Axboe
2001-01-09 19:20                           ` [PLEASE-TESTME] Zerocopy networking patch, 2.4.0-1 J Sloan
2001-01-09 18:10                         ` Stephen C. Tweedie
2001-01-09 15:38                     ` Benjamin C.R. LaHaise
2001-01-09 16:40                       ` Ingo Molnar
2001-01-09 17:30                         ` Benjamin C.R. LaHaise
2001-01-09 18:12                           ` Stephen C. Tweedie
2001-01-09 18:35                           ` Ingo Molnar
2001-01-09 17:53                       ` Christoph Hellwig
2001-01-09 21:13                 ` David S. Miller
2001-01-09 19:14               ` Linus Torvalds
2001-01-09 20:07                 ` Ingo Molnar
2001-01-09 20:15                   ` Linus Torvalds
2001-01-09 20:36                     ` Christoph Hellwig
2001-01-09 20:55                       ` Linus Torvalds
2001-01-09 21:12                         ` Christoph Hellwig
2001-01-09 21:26                           ` Linus Torvalds
2001-01-10  7:42                             ` Christoph Hellwig
2001-01-10  8:05                               ` Linus Torvalds
2001-01-10  8:33                                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2001-01-10  8:37                                 ` Andrew Morton
2001-01-10 23:32                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2001-01-19 15:55                                     ` Andrew Scott
2001-01-17 14:05                               ` Rik van Riel
2001-01-18  0:53                                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2001-01-18  1:13                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2001-01-18 17:50                                     ` Christoph Hellwig
2001-01-18 18:04                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2001-01-18 21:12                                     ` Albert D. Cahalan
2001-01-19  1:52                                       ` 2.4.1-pre8 video/ohci1394 compile problem ebi4
2001-01-19  6:55                                       ` [PLEASE-TESTME] Zerocopy networking patch, 2.4.0-1 Linus Torvalds
2001-01-09 23:06                         ` Benjamin C.R. LaHaise
2001-01-09 23:54                           ` Linus Torvalds
2001-01-10  7:51                             ` Gerd Knorr
2001-01-12  1:42                 ` Stephen C. Tweedie
2001-01-09 11:42             ` David S. Miller [this message]
2001-01-09 10:31           ` Christoph Hellwig
2001-01-09 11:05             ` Ingo Molnar
2001-01-09 18:27               ` Christoph Hellwig
2001-01-09 19:19                 ` Ingo Molnar
2001-01-09 14:18           ` Stephen C. Tweedie
2001-01-09 14:40             ` Ingo Molnar
2001-01-09 14:51               ` Alan Cox
2001-01-09 15:17               ` Stephen C. Tweedie
2001-01-09 15:37                 ` Ingo Molnar
2001-01-09 22:25                 ` Linus Torvalds
2001-01-10 15:21                   ` Stephen C. Tweedie
2001-01-09 15:25               ` Stephen Frost
2001-01-09 15:40                 ` Ingo Molnar
2001-01-09 15:48                   ` Stephen Frost
2001-01-10  1:14                   ` Dave Zarzycki
2001-01-10  1:14                     ` David S. Miller
2001-01-10  2:18                       ` Dave Zarzycki
2001-01-10  1:19                     ` Ingo Molnar
2001-01-09 21:18               ` David S. Miller
2001-01-10  2:56           ` storage over IP (was Re: [PLEASE-TESTME] Zerocopy networking patch, 2.4.0-1) dean gaudet
2001-01-10  2:58             ` David S. Miller
2001-01-10  3:18               ` dean gaudet
2001-01-10  3:09                 ` David S. Miller
2001-01-10  3:05             ` storage over IP (was Re: [PLEASE-TESTME] Zerocopy networking patch, Alan Cox
2001-01-08 21:48   ` [PLEASE-TESTME] Zerocopy networking patch, 2.4.0-1 David S. Miller
2001-01-08 22:32     ` Jes Sorensen
2001-01-08 22:37       ` David S. Miller
2001-01-08 22:43       ` Stephen Frost
2001-01-08 22:36     ` David S. Miller
2001-01-09 12:12       ` Ingo Molnar
2001-01-09 13:42   ` David S. Miller
2001-01-09 21:19     ` David S. Miller
2001-01-09 13:52   ` Trond Myklebust
2001-01-09 15:27     ` Trond Myklebust
2001-01-10  9:21       ` Trond Myklebust
2001-01-09 13:08 Stephen Landamore
2001-01-09 13:24 ` Ingo Molnar
2001-01-09 13:47   ` Andrew Morton
2001-01-09 19:15     ` Dan Hollis
2001-01-09 19:14   ` Dan Hollis
2001-01-09 22:03     ` David S. Miller
2001-01-09 22:58       ` Dan Hollis
2001-01-09 22:59         ` Ingo Molnar
2001-01-09 23:11           ` Dan Hollis
2001-01-10  3:24           ` Chris Wedgwood
2001-01-09 17:46 Manfred Spraul
2001-01-10  8:41 Manfred Spraul
2001-01-10  8:31 ` David S. Miller
2001-01-10 11:25 ` Ingo Molnar
2001-01-10 12:03   ` Manfred Spraul
2001-01-10 12:07     ` Ingo Molnar
2001-01-10 16:18       ` Jamie Lokier
2001-01-13 15:43 ` yodaiken

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