Re: Linux 2.2.20pre10

Re: Linux 2.2.20pre10

[PinkFreud]

> > > 2.2.20pre11
> > > o Security fixes
> > > | Details censored in accordance with the US DMCA
> > > Care to elaborate?                             
>                       
> On a list that reaches US citizens - no. File permissions and userids may
> constitute and be used for rights management.                            
>                                              
> Alan

Why not take that a step further?  It would seem to me that your
insane interpretation of that insane law would mean that unix and it's
derivatives (Linux, anyone?) would be illegal to use as well.

You're preaching to the choir here.  By withholding these changes from US
citizens, you're not going to pressure any politicians.  I doubt there are
many politicians who count on this issue reading this list.  I think most
of the US citizens reading this list, though, are enlightened enough to
know the harm the DMCA causes.

Please don't tell me you woke up this morning and had a sudden attack of
conscience that you were violating US law.  You've posted such changes
here since the DMCA was put into effect, not to mention that lists like
Bugtraq are still operating in the US - and I think many of us managed to
read about the symlink and ptrace holes in kernels <= 2.2.19.


	Mike Edwards

Brainbench certified Master Linux Administrator
http://www.brainbench.com/transcript.jsp?pid=158188
-----------------------------------
Unsolicited advertisments to this address are not welcome.

Re: Linux 2.2.20pre10

[Rik van Riel]

On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, PinkFreud wrote:

> You're preaching to the choir here.  By withholding these
> changes from US citizens, you're not going to pressure any
> politicians.

Pressuring US politicians is a job for US citizens.

Why are you asking Alan to risk prison _and_ pressure
US politicians?  That's something you, as a resident
of the USA, should be doing yourself.


Rik
-- 
DMCA, SSSCA, W3C?  Who cares?  http://thefreeworld.net/  (volunteers needed)

http://www.surriel.com/		http://distro.conectiva.com/

Re: Linux 2.2.20pre10

[PinkFreud]

On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, Rik van Riel wrote:

> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 18:30:38 -0200 (BRST)
> From: Rik van Riel <riel@conectiva.com.br>
> To: PinkFreud <pf-kernel@mirkwood.net>
> Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
> Subject: Re: Linux 2.2.20pre10
> 
> On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, PinkFreud wrote:
> 
> > You're preaching to the choir here.  By withholding these
> > changes from US citizens, you're not going to pressure any
> > politicians.
> 
> Pressuring US politicians is a job for US citizens.

Yep.  I agree.

> Why are you asking Alan to risk prison _and_ pressure
> US politicians?  That's something you, as a resident
> of the USA, should be doing yourself.

I never said that.  I merely pointed out that most US citizens on this
list know what the DMCA really stands for, and are, in all likelyhood
doing something, no matter how small, about it.  Why pressure us, when
most of us are undoubtedly aware of the problem?

As for risking jail, I point out again that the DMCA has never stopped him
before.  I recognize that the Skylarov case has him scared - and I don't
blame him.  Howver, Alan has already announced his intentions not to enter
the US until the DMCA is repealed.  What do you think is going to happen -
Bush sends the military out to bomb his house?

Sorry, that was in bad taste, I know.  But I am trying to make a point
here.  There's not much the US can do without him entering the country,
and he doesn't plan on doing so.  What annoys me, however, is suppressing
security information from US citizens just because a few moronic
politicians have their heads permanently shoved up their asses.

Seems to me Alan is just adding to the problem.


> Rik
> -- 


	Mike Edwards

Brainbench certified Master Linux Administrator
http://www.brainbench.com/transcript.jsp?pid=158188
-----------------------------------
Unsolicited advertisments to this address are not welcome.

Re: Linux 2.2.20pre10

[D. Stimits]

Rik van Riel wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, PinkFreud wrote:
> 
> > You're preaching to the choir here.  By withholding these
> > changes from US citizens, you're not going to pressure any
> > politicians.
> 
> Pressuring US politicians is a job for US citizens.

NO! US citizens should provide the most pressure, but thinking that
nations which the USA trades with and is partners with have no influence
is plain wrong. To state only citizens of USA can help means that you
truly believe the USA is an island untouched by the world around it. You
can't fight this from jail, but you don't have to be a USA citizen to
bring to light the shear stupidity of some US law. Sometimes a foreign
country has more influence in shouting about the wrong doings than do US
citizens...the political point of information input is different, all
angles are required. You don't have to be responsible for a problem in
order to be able to help solve it.

D. Stimits, stimits@idcomm.com

> 
> Why are you asking Alan to risk prison _and_ pressure
> US politicians?  That's something you, as a resident
> of the USA, should be doing yourself.
> 
> Rik
> --
> DMCA, SSSCA, W3C?  Who cares?  http://thefreeworld.net/  (volunteers needed)
> 
> http://www.surriel.com/         http://distro.conectiva.com/
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/

Re: Linux 2.2.20pre10

[Mike Fedyk]

On Mon, Oct 22, 2001 at 04:42:51PM -0400, PinkFreud wrote:
> the US until the DMCA is repealed.  What do you think is going to happen -
> Bush sends the military out to bomb his house?
> 
> Sorry, that was in bad taste, I know.  But I am trying to make a point

This is almost as bad as a Natzi reference...

C'mon people.  I'm sure these security issues have been discussed on bugtraq
or someplace similar, why not just go there to look it up?

Re: Linux 2.2.20pre10

[Jeff Garzik]

Mike Fedyk wrote:
> C'mon people.  I'm sure these security issues have been discussed on bugtraq
> or someplace similar, why not just go there to look it up?

Very true... though I am sure DMCA has a legally chilling effect on
BugTraq as well.  Theoretically foreigners who post analysis and
exploits on BugTraq can be jailed when they enter the US, just like
Dmitry.

	Jeff


-- 
Jeff Garzik      | Only so many songs can be sung
Building 1024    | with two lips, two lungs, and one tongue.
MandrakeSoft     |         - nomeansno

Re: Linux 2.2.20pre10

[Luigi Genoni]

Ohh, our prime minister declared USA the main defensor of liberty.
Of course he was thinking also to this law. You know he has three
television, a couple of newspapers and so on...
His natural attitude brings him to agree in every case with USA
government. He is a good vendor. Apart of this. In Italy we are making a
lot of pressure against a stupid law about copyrights, but
when the prime minister is the owner of the biggest television and most
important newspapers, and when the statal television and newspaper are
a little assentive with the government (oh... just a little),
we are under censure. And anyway we publish articles and public mails
about that, we open web sites. We try to inform, and belive me, italians
are not so interested is a soccer team is not involved.

USA citizens should have less dificoulties to do something similar,
but I am not informed of a real effort from them.

Luigi

p.s.
of course, please, tell me I am wrong

On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, D. Stimits wrote:

>
> NO! US citizens should provide the most pressure, but thinking that
> nations which the USA trades with and is partners with have no influence
> is plain wrong. To state only citizens of USA can help means that you
> truly believe the USA is an island untouched by the world around it. You
> can't fight this from jail, but you don't have to be a USA citizen to
> bring to light the shear stupidity of some US law. Sometimes a foreign
> country has more influence in shouting about the wrong doings than do US
> citizens...the political point of information input is different, all
> angles are required. You don't have to be responsible for a problem in
> order to be able to help solve it.
>
> D. Stimits, stimits@idcomm.com
>
> >
> > Why are you asking Alan to risk prison _and_ pressure
> > US politicians?  That's something you, as a resident
> > of the USA, should be doing yourself.
> >
> > Rik
> > --
> > DMCA, SSSCA, W3C?  Who cares?  http://thefreeworld.net/  (volunteers needed)
> >
> > http://www.surriel.com/         http://distro.conectiva.com/
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> > More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> > Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/
>

government/politics/whatever discussions

[David S. Miller]

They don't belong here.

Sure Alan's changelogs are relevant, but half of the threads now with
the same Subject line are far beyond that.

Please take these conversations to appropriate lists or take them into
private email.  In fact, these talks would do much more good at one of
the EFF or other political activism lists.

They don't belong here, As interesting and important as these
topics are.  I am sure I am not the only person who frankly doesn't
want to have to listen to some of the conversations happening here
now today, when I read this list to get (oh my gosh!) linux kernel
related material.

I'm asking everyone nicely to abide by this request.  Matti and I
really don't want to have to be assholes and start black holing people
who can't keep their postings on-topic.

Franks a lot,
David S. Miller
davem@redhat.com

Re: government/politics/whatever discussions

[Matti Aarnio]

On Mon, Oct 22, 2001 at 05:20:42PM -0700, David S. Miller wrote:
....
> I'm asking everyone nicely to abide by this request.  Matti and I
> really don't want to have to be assholes and start black holing people
> who can't keep their postings on-topic.

     Blocking some discussion topic (Subject substring) is the ultimate
     penalty I am willing to impose -- and have imposed couple times
     over the years.

     Folks,   while DaveM and myself are hard to tempt to be censors,
     even that can happen...   Please, don't tempt us.

> Franks a lot,
> David S. Miller
> davem@redhat.com

/Matti Aarnio

Re: Linux 2.2.20pre10

[Marco Colombo]

On Tue, 23 Oct 2001, Luigi Genoni wrote:

>
> Ohh, our prime minister declared USA the main defensor of liberty.
> Of course he was thinking also to this law. You know he has three
> television, a couple of newspapers and so on...
> His natural attitude brings him to agree in every case with USA
> government. He is a good vendor. Apart of this. In Italy we are making a
> lot of pressure against a stupid law about copyrights, but
> when the prime minister is the owner of the biggest television and most
> important newspapers, and when the statal television and newspaper are
> a little assentive with the government (oh... just a little),
> we are under censure. And anyway we publish articles and public mails
> about that, we open web sites. We try to inform, and belive me, italians
> are not so interested is a soccer team is not involved.
>
> USA citizens should have less dificoulties to do something similar,
> but I am not informed of a real effort from them.
>
> Luigi
>
> p.s.
> of course, please, tell me I am wrong

Of course you are: move this to soc.*, please.

.TM.
-- 
      ____/  ____/   /
     /      /       /			Marco Colombo
    ___/  ___  /   /		      Technical Manager
   /          /   /			 ESI s.r.l.
 _____/ _____/  _/		       Colombo@ESI.it