Re: Re[2]: ANN: NTFS 2.0.1 for kernel 2.5.7 released

Re: Re[2]: ANN: NTFS 2.0.1 for kernel 2.5.7 released

[Anton Altaparmakov]

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Nerijus Baliunas wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:57:07 +0000 (GMT) Anton Altaparmakov <aia21@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
> AA> > To have all files executable breaks stuff like:
> AA> > midnight commander (won't open executable files)
> AA> 
> AA> Ouch, that is plain stupid... mc should be fixed. I open executables all
> AA> the time and mc should automatically fire up a hexeditor.
> 
> You probably misunderstood the problem - I cannot enter archive files (.tgz, .zip)
> in mc if these files are marked as executable - mc just tries to execute them.

Ah, that is a bad thing. (I don't use mc as you may have guessed...)

> AA> I guess if more people complain I can change the default fmask to be 0177
> AA> instead of 0077 but I want to see more complaints first. I personally find
> AA> the being able to execute behaviour better as I run things off the ntfs
> AA> partitions...
> 
> People using Linux usually keep data files on fat and ntfs permissions, not
> executables (IMHO).

Depends what you are doing and whether you use wine or not... I have no
idea what the percentages are...

Best regards,

	Anton
-- 
Anton Altaparmakov <aia21 at cam.ac.uk> (replace at with @)
Linux NTFS maintainer / WWW: http://linux-ntfs.sf.net/
ICQ: 8561279 / WWW: http://www-stu.christs.cam.ac.uk/~aia21/

Re: Re[2]: ANN: NTFS 2.0.1 for kernel 2.5.7 released

[Pavel Machek]

Hi!

> > AA> > To have all files executable breaks stuff like:
> > AA> > midnight commander (won't open executable files)
> > AA> 
> > AA> Ouch, that is plain stupid... mc should be fixed. I open executables all
> > AA> the time and mc should automatically fire up a hexeditor.
> > 
> > You probably misunderstood the problem - I cannot enter archive files (.tgz, .zip)
> > in mc if these files are marked as executable - mc just tries to execute them.
> 
> Ah, that is a bad thing. (I don't use mc as you may have guessed...)

Well, not completely true. Let's see.

When you press enter, mc does default action. Default action is

execute, if file is executable

open tar gz archive, if file is named *.tgz

etc. It is actually quite reasonable. If you want to open executable
.tgz archive just do cd foo.tgz#utar.
									Pavel
-- 
(about SSSCA) "I don't say this lightly.  However, I really think that the U.S.
no longer is classifiable as a democracy, but rather as a plutocracy." --hpa

Re: ANN: NTFS 2.0.1 for kernel 2.5.7 released

[Anton Altaparmakov]

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Padraig Brady wrote:
> Is this a good default?

I don't see what's wrong with that. It follows the logic of least
surprise. In Windows all files are executable as there is no way to
distinguish executables from non-executables due to lack of executable
bit. NTFS on Linux has no way of telling the difference either and hence
it makes sense to allow execution of all files.

If you don't like it, use -o noexec,fmask=0111 and you will not have any
files being executable.

> IMHO you usually would not want to execute stuff off NTFS, and
> if you do you can always just explicitly invoke using wine like:
> `wine /ntfs/lookout.exe`

No you couldn't.

> To have all files executable breaks stuff like:
> midnight commander (won't open executable files)

Ouch, that is plain stupid... mc should be fixed. I open executables all
the time and mc should automatically fire up a hexeditor.

> ls colorizing

I like green files. (-;

> shell tab completion

Heh?!? Works for me. Fix your shell settings.

> ...

Like what?

> see:
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=100143416100009&r=1&w=2

Read it. I still don't see any reason for not having x on files by
default.

> I think the default should be
> rx for directories and r for files

If you think so just use fmask to clear the x bit and be happy.

I guess if more people complain I can change the default fmask to be 0177
instead of 0077 but I want to see more complaints first. I personally find
the being able to execute behaviour better as I run things off the ntfs
partitions...

Best regards,

	Anton
-- 
Anton Altaparmakov <aia21 at cam.ac.uk> (replace at with @)
Linux NTFS maintainer / WWW: http://linux-ntfs.sf.net/
ICQ: 8561279 / WWW: http://www-stu.christs.cam.ac.uk/~aia21/

Re[2]: ANN: NTFS 2.0.1 for kernel 2.5.7 released

[Nerijus Baliunas]

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:57:07 +0000 (GMT) Anton Altaparmakov <aia21@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote:

AA> > To have all files executable breaks stuff like:
AA> > midnight commander (won't open executable files)
AA> 
AA> Ouch, that is plain stupid... mc should be fixed. I open executables all
AA> the time and mc should automatically fire up a hexeditor.

You probably misunderstood the problem - I cannot enter archive files (.tgz, .zip)
in mc if these files are marked as executable - mc just tries to execute them.

AA> I guess if more people complain I can change the default fmask to be 0177
AA> instead of 0077 but I want to see more complaints first. I personally find
AA> the being able to execute behaviour better as I run things off the ntfs
AA> partitions...

People using Linux usually keep data files on fat and ntfs permissions, not
executables (IMHO).

Regards,
Nerijus

Re: Re[2]: ANN: NTFS 2.0.1 for kernel 2.5.7 released

[Joachim Breuer]

Nerijus Baliunas <nerijus@users.sourceforge.net> writes:

> On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:57:07 +0000 (GMT) Anton Altaparmakov <aia21@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> [...] Discussion about default fmask, mc, being able to run in place
>       snipped
>
> People using Linux usually keep data files on fat and ntfs permissions, not
> executables (IMHO).

For the sake of another vote: Yes, I do use NTFS primarily for data
storage, and No, I don't like gratuitous x-bits. Not *at all*. Not
because I work with some specific software that should be "fixed", but
because I think it is quite b0rken to flag "executable" in the general
case.

What I would like to see (probably exists somewhere) is a (userland)
tool which can fire up an exec image residing in a readable (not
executable) file - that would take care of the "star office
installation" case, as well. If said tool was called "run" it would
have all semantics intuitively expected by me.

But even without "run" I'd be very much happier with x off by default
- those who want it should turn it on using mount -o fmask, not the
other way around.


Just my opinion.


So long,
   Joe

-- 
"I use emacs, which might be thought of as a thermonuclear
 word processor."
-- Neal Stephenson, "In the beginning... was the command line"

Re: Re[2]: ANN: NTFS 2.0.1 for kernel 2.5.7 released

[Nicholas Miell]

On Sat, 2002-03-30 at 02:34, Joachim Breuer wrote:
> What I would like to see (probably exists somewhere) is a (userland)
> tool which can fire up an exec image residing in a readable (not
> executable) file - that would take care of the "star office
> installation" case, as well. If said tool was called "run" it would
> have all semantics intuitively expected by me.
> 

You already have the program. It's called /lib/ld-linux.so.2