Re: [PATCH] AES x86-64-asm impl.

Re: [PATCH] AES x86-64-asm impl.

[Andi Kleen]

Florian.Bohrer@t-online.de (Florian Bohrer) writes:

> hi,
>
> this is my first public kernel patch. it is an x86_64 asm optimized version of AES for the 
> crypto-framework. the patch is against 2.6.9-rc2-mm1 but should work with other 
> versions too. 
>
>
> the asm-code is from Jari Ruusu (loop-aes).
> the org. glue-code is from Fruhwirth Clemens.
>

Thanks. I will add it to the x86-64 patchkit. I have a 64bit version 
here too, but it had a bug somewhere and I didn't have time to fix it yet.

Unfortunately it's still fundamentally 32bit. Anybody interested
in doing a true 64bit AES? 

-Andi

Re: [PATCH] AES x86-64-asm impl.

[dean gaudet]

On Sat, 2 Oct 2004, Andi Kleen wrote:

> Unfortunately it's still fundamentally 32bit. Anybody interested
> in doing a true 64bit AES?

i doubt it helps any -- except for benchmark-only purposes.

there's a description of the 32-bit T-table approach in section 7.3 of 
<http://fp.gladman.plus.com/cryptography_technology/rijndael/aesspec.pdf>

basically the tables are 8-bit -> 32-bit maps, and there are 4 of them (2 
for each direction).  to go to 64-bit you'd need 16-bit -> 64-bit maps... 
512KiB per table.  there are some other variations on the tables which are 
smaller, but nothing as small as the 1024 bytes per table of the 32-bit 
implementation.

there's a completely different approach using bit-slicing (basically 
consider each register as 64 1-bit registers), which yields great 
throughput but cruddy latency -- you basically need lots of non-dependant 
streams to make this pay off (i.e. it might work for disk crypto 
processing multiple blocks simultaneously).

-dean

Re: [PATCH] AES x86-64-asm impl.

[Jari Ruusu]

Andi Kleen wrote:
> Florian.Bohrer@t-online.de (Florian Bohrer) writes:
> > the asm-code is from Jari Ruusu (loop-aes).
> > the org. glue-code is from Fruhwirth Clemens.
> 
> Thanks. I will add it to the x86-64 patchkit.

Here we go again...

Linus promised that he will not merge my code, and I am quite happy with my
code not being anywhere near mainline linux cryptoapi.

Linus, please consider dropping this.

-- 
Jari Ruusu  1024R/3A220F51 5B 4B F9 BB D3 3F 52 E9  DB 1D EB E3 24 0E A9 DD

Re: [PATCH] AES x86-64-asm impl.

[Paolo Ciarrocchi]

On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 14:51:19 +0300, Jari Ruusu
<jariruusu@users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
> Andi Kleen wrote:
> > Florian.Bohrer@t-online.de (Florian Bohrer) writes:
> > > the asm-code is from Jari Ruusu (loop-aes).
> > > the org. glue-code is from Fruhwirth Clemens.
> >
> > Thanks. I will add it to the x86-64 patchkit.
> 
> Here we go again...
> 
> Linus promised that he will not merge my code, and I am quite happy with my
> code not being anywhere near mainline linux cryptoapi.
> 
> Linus, please consider dropping this.

I guess Linus will do so,
but may I ask you why don't you want to see your code merged in mainline ?

Thanks.

-- 
Paolo
Personal home page: www.ciarrocchi.tk
See my photos: http://paolociarrocchi.fotopic.net/
Buy cool stuff here: http://www.cafepress.com/paoloc

Re: [PATCH] AES x86-64-asm impl.

[Jari Ruusu]

Paolo Ciarrocchi wrote:
> On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 14:51:19 +0300, Jari Ruusu
> > Linus promised that he will not merge my code, and I am quite happy with my
> > code not being anywhere near mainline linux cryptoapi.
> >
> > Linus, please consider dropping this.
> 
> I guess Linus will do so,
> but may I ask you why don't you want to see your code merged in mainline ?

I don't want my name associated with mainline linux cryptoapi or cryptoloop
or their developers.

-- 
Jari Ruusu  1024R/3A220F51 5B 4B F9 BB D3 3F 52 E9  DB 1D EB E3 24 0E A9 DD

Re: [PATCH] AES x86-64-asm impl.

[Paolo Ciarrocchi]

On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 15:20:43 +0300, Jari Ruusu
<jariruusu@users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
> Paolo Ciarrocchi wrote:
> > On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 14:51:19 +0300, Jari Ruusu
> > > Linus promised that he will not merge my code, and I am quite happy with my
> > > code not being anywhere near mainline linux cryptoapi.
> > >
> > > Linus, please consider dropping this.
> >
> > I guess Linus will do so,
> > but may I ask you why don't you want to see your code merged in mainline ?
> 
> I don't want my name associated with mainline linux cryptoapi or cryptoloop
> or their developers.

I understand that, I still don't understand the reaseon.
But hey, feel free to ignore my question ;)
-- 
Paolo
Personal home page: www.ciarrocchi.tk
See my photos: http://paolociarrocchi.fotopic.net/
Buy cool stuff here: http://www.cafepress.com/paoloc

Re: [PATCH] AES x86-64-asm impl.

[Jari Ruusu]

Paolo Ciarrocchi wrote:
> On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 15:20:43 +0300, Jari Ruusu
> I understand that, I still don't understand the reaseon.
> But hey, feel free to ignore my question ;)

You haven't looked at cryptoloop security, have you?

No sane person wants to be accociated with that kind of broken and
backdoored scam. I certainly don't.

-- 
Jari Ruusu  1024R/3A220F51 5B 4B F9 BB D3 3F 52 E9  DB 1D EB E3 24 0E A9 DD

Re: [PATCH] AES x86-64-asm impl.

[Paolo Ciarrocchi]

On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 15:32:29 +0300, Jari Ruusu
<jariruusu@users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
> Paolo Ciarrocchi wrote:
> > On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 15:20:43 +0300, Jari Ruusu
> > I understand that, I still don't understand the reaseon.
> > But hey, feel free to ignore my question ;)
> 
> You haven't looked at cryptoloop security, have you?

No at all.
 
> No sane person wants to be accociated with that kind of broken and
> backdoored scam. I certainly don't.

It was just curiosity ;)
Thank you for the answer.

-- 
Paolo
Personal home page: www.ciarrocchi.tk
See my photos: http://paolociarrocchi.fotopic.net/
Buy cool stuff here: http://www.cafepress.com/paoloc

Re: [discuss] Re: [PATCH] AES x86-64-asm impl.

[Raul Miller]

On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 03:32:29PM +0300, Jari Ruusu wrote:
> You haven't looked at cryptoloop security, have you?
> 
> No sane person wants to be accociated with that kind of broken and
> backdoored scam. I certainly don't.

Most kernel software is broken, initially -- and eventually it's either
replaced with something better or tossed because no one is interested
in it.

It's not clear to me whether you're more in the "offering something
better" camp or the "not interested" camp.  But I'm curious -- what do
you see as the major issues?

Thanks,

-- 
Raul

Re: [PATCH] AES x86-64-asm impl.

[Bill Davidsen]

Jari Ruusu wrote:
> Paolo Ciarrocchi wrote:
> 
>>On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 15:20:43 +0300, Jari Ruusu
>>I understand that, I still don't understand the reaseon.
>>But hey, feel free to ignore my question ;)
> 
> 
> You haven't looked at cryptoloop security, have you?
> 
> No sane person wants to be accociated with that kind of broken and
> backdoored scam. I certainly don't.
> 
Would you be happy if the code were wrapped as a general use package 
like blowfish, or have you decided that because one part of Linux 
doesn't meet your standards you don't want to allow any of your code to 
be used in it?


-- 
    -bill davidsen (davidsen@tmr.com)
"The secret to procrastination is to put things off until the
  last possible moment - but no longer"  -me

Re: [PATCH] AES x86-64-asm impl.

[Lee Revell]

On Mon, 2004-10-04 at 15:26, Bill Davidsen wrote:
> Jari Ruusu wrote:
> > Paolo Ciarrocchi wrote:
> > 
> >>On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 15:20:43 +0300, Jari Ruusu
> >>I understand that, I still don't understand the reaseon.
> >>But hey, feel free to ignore my question ;)
> > 
> > 
> > You haven't looked at cryptoloop security, have you?
> > 
> > No sane person wants to be accociated with that kind of broken and
> > backdoored scam. I certainly don't.
> > 
> Would you be happy if the code were wrapped as a general use package 
> like blowfish, or have you decided that because one part of Linux 
> doesn't meet your standards you don't want to allow any of your code to 
> be used in it?
> 

Please check the archives, Jari's reasons are well documented.  I cannot
summarize the technical issues here as IANA cryptographer but please,
let's not start that thread again.

Lee 

Re: [PATCH] AES x86-64-asm impl.

[Bill Davidsen]

On Mon, 4 Oct 2004, Lee Revell wrote:

> On Mon, 2004-10-04 at 15:26, Bill Davidsen wrote:
> > Jari Ruusu wrote:
> > > Paolo Ciarrocchi wrote:
> > > 
> > >>On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 15:20:43 +0300, Jari Ruusu
> > >>I understand that, I still don't understand the reaseon.
> > >>But hey, feel free to ignore my question ;)
> > > 
> > > 
> > > You haven't looked at cryptoloop security, have you?
> > > 
> > > No sane person wants to be accociated with that kind of broken and
> > > backdoored scam. I certainly don't.
> > > 
> > Would you be happy if the code were wrapped as a general use package 
> > like blowfish, or have you decided that because one part of Linux 
> > doesn't meet your standards you don't want to allow any of your code to 
> > be used in it?
> > 
> 
> Please check the archives, Jari's reasons are well documented.  I cannot
> summarize the technical issues here as IANA cryptographer but please,
> let's not start that thread again.

I'm not starting a thread, I read the discussion the first time and I'm
not asking about his reasons, I'm asking a yes/no question which he will
answer or not as he pleases. 

-- 
bill davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
  CTO, TMR Associates, Inc
Doing interesting things with little computers since 1979.

Re: [PATCH] AES x86-64-asm impl.

[Andi Kleen]

On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 02:51:19PM +0300, Jari Ruusu wrote:
> Andi Kleen wrote:
> > Florian.Bohrer@t-online.de (Florian Bohrer) writes:
> > > the asm-code is from Jari Ruusu (loop-aes).
> > > the org. glue-code is from Fruhwirth Clemens.
> > 
> > Thanks. I will add it to the x86-64 patchkit.
> 
> Here we go again...
> 
> Linus promised that he will not merge my code, and I am quite happy with my
> code not being anywhere near mainline linux cryptoapi.
> 
> Linus, please consider dropping this.

Ok, I will drop that version and go back to the older version based
on the i386 code.

-Andi

Re: [PATCH] AES x86-64-asm impl.

[Andy Lutomirski]

Andi Kleen wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 02:51:19PM +0300, Jari Ruusu wrote:

>>
>>Here we go again...
>>
>>Linus promised that he will not merge my code, and I am quite happy with my
>>code not being anywhere near mainline linux cryptoapi.
>>
>>Linus, please consider dropping this.
> 
> 
> Ok, I will drop that version and go back to the older version based
> on the i386 code.
> 
> -Andi

WHAT?  We're dropping potentially better code because someone _who 
didn't submit it_ disagrees for personal political reasons?  (Jari- I'm 
not questioning your reasons for not wanting to be involved in 
cryptoapi, but IIRC you did release that code under the GPL.)

--Andy

Re: [PATCH] AES x86-64-asm impl.

[Linus Torvalds]

On Mon, 4 Oct 2004, Andy Lutomirski wrote:
> 
> WHAT?  We're dropping potentially better code because someone _who 
> didn't submit it_ disagrees for personal political reasons?  (Jari- I'm 
> not questioning your reasons for not wanting to be involved in 
> cryptoapi, but IIRC you did release that code under the GPL.)

Guys. Please remember this: don't bother with code that Jari supposedly 
"releases". It's simply not worth the bother.

		Linus