mirror of https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Mike Kershaw <dragorn@kismetwireless.net>
To: Michael Buesch <mbuesch@freenet.de>
Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: State of the Union: Wireless
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 11:04:16 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20060106160415.GJ5878@DRD1812.marist.edu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <200601061200.59376.mbuesch@freenet.de>

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3067 bytes --]

> So, now we asked: How would a sane UI look like. We had a few points:
> * The interface needs to support some kind of "master" interface to
> configure the hardware, 80211 parameters and
> to actually configure and setup the
> * Virtual interfaces.
> Data is transferred only though the virtual interfaces, which could
> be an AP interface, a STA interface in INFRA or Ad-Hoc mode, etc... .
> Configuration is done though the master interface.

Two things to inject, from my own little corner of userspace:  

1.  Monitor mode formatting.  

I ported over the BSD radiotap packet header system, it's in the Intel
and I beleive some versions of the Devicescape stacks.  Using these
would be a very good thing for userspace.  If for some reason it isn't
used, then we (userspace tool people) need something equivalent.  I like
radiotap primarily because:
 * Dynamic per-packet stats.  Drivers provide what their firmware is
   capable of providing per frame.  The more info provided the better.
 * Expandable headers.  New per-frame stats can be added into the RT
   headers without changing linktype, breaking existing apps, etc.
 * Format indicators.  Is the 4 byte FCS tacked onto the end of the
   frame in rfmon?  If we don't know this in userspace, we can't do
   802.11 validation, wep decoding, and other important stuff.
   Userspace shouldn't have to know which driver is being used, this
   ought to be in the frame headers.

Radiotap provides all of those and is already supported by tcpdump,
ethereal, kismet, etc.

2. RFMon is weird/breaks interfaces
The other gotcha with rfmon is it often breaks a cards ability to
associate (though less often with new cards).  Even if it doesn't,
whatever tool put it into rfmon is likely to want to take control of the
channel hopping, which will interfere with the associations of other
virtual interfaces.

Currently single-interface cards (ethX, whatever) thrown into rfmon just
plain break, it a pretty obvious way.  The linktype changes, traffic
stops, and users more or less understand this is going to be the
behavior.  Once virtual interfaces come into play, it may cause some
confusion if you can make virtual interfaces that do sta, adhoc, ap all
at once without conflicting, and suddenly bringing up an rfmon
interfaces causes them all to break.

I don't know if the solution to this is a warning, marking non-rfmon
virtual interfaces down, or just saying "they'll figure it out", but I
figured it's worth considering at an early stage.

-m

-- 
Mike Kershaw/Dragorn <dragorn@kismetwireless.net>
GPG Fingerprint: 3546 89DF 3C9D ED80 3381  A661 D7B2 8822 738B BDB1

<>!*''#                 Waka waka bang splat tick tick hash
^@`$$-                  Caret at back-tick dollar dollar dash,
!*'$_                   Bang splat tick dollar under-score,
%*<>#4                  Percent splat waka waka number four,
&)../                   Ampersand right-paren dot dot slash,
|{~~SYSTEM HALTED       Vertical-bar curly-bracket tilde tilde CRASH.


[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

  parent reply	other threads:[~2006-01-06 16:04 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 40+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <1136541243.4037.18.camel@localhost>
2006-01-06 11:00 ` [Bcm43xx-dev] [Fwd: State of the Union: Wireless] Michael Buesch
2006-01-06 11:38   ` Marcel Holtmann
2006-01-06 11:45     ` Michael Buesch
2006-01-06 12:10       ` Marcel Holtmann
2006-01-06 12:46         ` Patrick McHardy
2006-01-06 18:23           ` Stephen Hemminger
2006-01-06 22:16           ` David Lang
2006-01-06 22:18             ` David S. Miller
2006-01-09 18:24               ` Ingo Oeser
2006-01-06 22:22             ` Patrick McHardy
2006-01-12 14:20           ` Harald Welte
2006-01-06 16:12       ` Feyd
2006-01-06 16:25         ` Johannes Berg
2006-01-06 16:04   ` Mike Kershaw [this message]
2006-01-06 17:02   ` Ben Greear
2006-01-10 12:38 State of the Union: Wireless Tim Tassonis
2006-01-10 12:53 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-01-10 13:34   ` Tim Tassonis
2006-01-10 14:13     ` Adrian Bunk
2006-01-10 16:07       ` Tim Tassonis
2006-01-10 16:31         ` Adrian Bunk
2006-01-10 16:17       ` Tim Tassonis
2006-01-11 20:37       ` Pavel Machek
2006-01-14  9:43         ` Jeff Garzik
2006-01-10 14:16 ` Chase Venters
     [not found] ` <mailman.1136898727.7233.linux-kernel2news@redhat.com>
2006-01-11  0:03   ` Pete Zaitcev
2006-01-11  0:29     ` Adrian Bunk
     [not found] <5rRp0-4X1-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
2006-01-06  5:39 ` Robert Hancock
2006-01-06  6:42   ` Randy.Dunlap
2006-01-06 10:26   ` Alistair John Strachan
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2006-01-06  4:22 Jeff Garzik
2006-01-06 11:31 ` Johannes Berg
2006-01-06 11:46   ` Dominik Brodowski
2006-01-06 12:26     ` Johannes Berg
2006-01-06 12:48     ` Stefan Rompf
2006-01-06 12:53       ` Johannes Berg
2006-01-07 14:49   ` Denis Vlasenko
2006-01-10 13:18     ` Johannes Berg
2006-01-10  6:39 ` Denis Vlasenko
2006-01-10  8:36   ` Chase Venters

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=20060106160415.GJ5878@DRD1812.marist.edu \
    --to=dragorn@kismetwireless.net \
    --cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=mbuesch@freenet.de \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox

all inboxes | Powered by JetHome®