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From: "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@us.ibm.com>
To: Alan Stern <stern@rowland.harvard.edu>
Cc: David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>,
	Kernel development list <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: Uses for memory barriers
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 17:06:45 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20061002000645.GC3584@us.ibm.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0609301625280.15977-100000@netrider.rowland.org>

On Sat, Sep 30, 2006 at 05:01:05PM -0400, Alan Stern wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Sep 2006, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> 
> > > Let's start with some new notation.  If A is a location in memory and n is
> > > an index number, let's write "ld(A,n)", "st(A,n)", and "ac(A,n)" to stand
> > > for a load, store, or arbitrary access to A.  The index n is simply a way
> > > to distinguish among multiple accesses to the same location.  If n isn't
> > > needed we may choose to omit it.
> > 
> > Don't we also need to have an argument indicating who is observing the
> > stores?
> 
> Not here.  Such an observation would itself have to be a separate load,
> and so would have its own index.

Ah!  So ld(A,n) sees st(A,i) for the largest i<n?

> > > "Comes before" need not be transitive, depending on the architecture.  We 
> > > can safely allow it to be transitive among stores that are all visible to 
> > > some single CPU, but not all stores need to be so visible.
> > 
> > OK, I agree with total ordering on a specific variable, and also on
> > all loads and stores from a given CPU -- but the latter only from the
> > viewpoint of that particular CPU.
> 
> What I meant above was that the ordering can be total on all stores for a
> specific variable that are visible to a given CPU, regardless of the CPUs
> executing the stores.  ("Comes before" never tries to compare accesses to
> different variables.)
> 
> I admit that this notion may be a little vague, since it's hard to say
> whether a particular store is visible to a particular CPU in the absence
> of a witnessing load.  The same objection applies to the issue of whether
> one store overwrites another -- if a third store comes along and
> overwrites both then it can be difficult or impossible to define the
> ordering of the first two.

Definitely a complication!

> > > As an example, consider a 4-CPU system where CPUs 0,1 share the cache C01
> > > and CPUs 2,3 share the cache C23.  Suppose that each CPU executes a store
> > > to A concurrently.  Then C01 might decide that the store from CPU 0 will
> > > overwrite the store from CPU 1, and C23 might decide that the store from
> > > CPU 2 will overwrite the store from CPU 3.  Similarly, the two caches
> > > together might decide that the store from CPU 0 will overwrite the store
> > > from CPU 2.  Under these conditions it makes no sense to compare the
> > > stores from CPUs 1 and 3, because nowhere are both stores visible.
> > 
> > Agreed -- in the absence of concurrent loads from A or use of things
> > like atomic_xchg() to do the stores, there is no way for the software
> > to know anything except that CPU 0 was the eventual winner.  This means
> > that the six permutations of 1, 2, and 3 are possible from the software's
> > viewpoint -- it has no way of knowing that the order 3, 2, 1, 0 is the
> > "real" order.
> 
> It's worse than you say.  Even if there _are_ concurrent loads that see
> the various intermediate states, there's still no single CPU that can see
> both the CPU 1 and CPU 3 values.  No matter how hard you looked, you
> wouldn't be able to order those two stores.

In absence of something like a synchronized fine-grained clock, yes, you are
all too correct.

> > > Now, if we consider atomic_xchg() to be a combined load followed by a
> > > store, its atomic nature is expressed by requiring that no other store can
> > > occur in the middle.  Symbolically, let's say atomic_xchg(&A) is
> > > represented by
> > > 
> > > 	ld(A,m); st(A,n);
> > > 
> > > and we can even stipulate that since these are atomic accesses, ld(A,m) <
> > > st(A,n).  Then for any other st(A,k) on any CPU, if st(A,k) c.b. st(A,n)  
> > > we must have st(A,k) c.b. ld(A,m).  The reverse implication follows from
> > > one of the degenerate subcases above.
> > > 
> > > >From this you can prove that for any two atomic_xchg() calls on the same
> > > atomic_t variable, one "comes before" the other.  Going on from there, you
> > > can show that -- assuming spinlocks are implemented via atomic_xchg() --
> > > for any two critical sections, one comes completely before the other. 
> > > Furthermore every CPU will agree on which came first, so there is a 
> > > global total ordering of critical sections.
> 
> > Interesting!
> > 
> > However, I believe we can safely claim a little bit more, given that
> > some CPUs do a blind store for the spin_unlock() operation.  In this
> > blind-store case, a CPU that sees the store corresponding to (say) CPU
> > 0's unlock would necessarily see the all the accesses corresponding to
> > (say) CPU 1's "earlier" critical section.  Therefore, at least some
> > degree of transitivity can be assumed for sequences of loads and stores
> > to a single variable.
> > 
> > Thoughts?
> 
> I'm not quite sure what you're saying.  In practice does it amount to 
> this?
> 
> 	CPU 0			CPU 1			CPU 2
> 	-----			-----			-----
> 				spin_lock(&L);		spin_lock(&L);
> 				a = 1;			b = a + 1;
> 				spin_unlock(&L);	spin_unlock(&L);
> 	while (spin_is_locked(&L)) ;
> 	rmb();
> 	assert(!(b==2 && a==0));
> 
> I think this follows from the principles I laid out.  But of course it 
> depends crucially on the protection provided by the critical sections.

In absence of CONFIG_X86_OOSTORE or CONFIG_X86_PPRO_FENCE, i386's
implementation of spin_unlock() ends up being a simple store:

	#define __raw_spin_unlock_string \
		"movb $1,%0" \
			:"+m" (lock->slock) : : "memory"

No explicit memory barrier, as the x86's implicit store-ordering memory
barriers suffice to keep stores inside the critical section.  In addition,
x86 refuses to pull a store ahead of a load, so the loads are also confined
to the critical section.

So, your example then looks as follows:

	CPU 0			CPU 1			CPU 2
	-----			-----			-----
				spin_lock(&L);		spin_lock(&L);
				a = 1;			b = a + 1;
				implicit_mb();		implicit_mb();
				L=unlocked;		L=unlocked;
	while (spin_is_locked(&L)) ;
	rmb();
	assert(!(b==2 && a==0));

I am then asserting that a very weak form of transitivity is required.
The fact that CPU 0 saw CPU 2's unlock and the fact that CPU 2 saw
CPU 1's assignment a=1 must imply that CPU 0 also sees CPU 1's a=1.
It is OK to also invoke the fact that CPU 2 also saw CPU 1's unlock before
seeing CPU 1's assignment a=1, and I am suggesting taking this latter
course, since it appears to me to be a weaker assumption.

Thoughts?

BTW, I like you approach of naming the orderings differently.  For
the pseudo-ordering implied by a memory barrier, would something like
"conditionally preceeds" and "conditionally follows" get across the
fact that -some- sort of ordering is happening, but not necessarily
strict temporal ordering?

						Thanx, Paul

  reply	other threads:[~2006-10-02  0:05 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 92+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <20060911190005.GA1295@us.ibm.com>
2006-09-12 18:08 ` Alan Stern
2006-09-12 20:23   ` Paul E. McKenney
2006-09-14 14:58     ` Alan Stern
2006-09-15  5:16       ` Paul E. McKenney
2006-09-15 19:48         ` Alan Stern
2006-09-16  4:19           ` Paul E. McKenney
2006-09-16 15:28             ` Alan Stern
2006-09-18 19:13               ` Paul E. McKenney
2006-09-18 20:13                 ` Alan Stern
2006-09-19  0:47                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2006-09-19 16:04                     ` Alan Stern
2006-09-19 16:38                       ` Nick Piggin
2006-09-19 17:40                         ` Alan Stern
2006-09-19 17:51                           ` Nick Piggin
2006-09-19 18:19                             ` Paul E. McKenney
2006-09-19 18:48                               ` Nick Piggin
2006-09-19 19:36                                 ` Paul E. McKenney
2006-09-19 19:48                                   ` Nick Piggin
2006-09-19 20:01                                     ` Paul E. McKenney
2006-09-19 20:38                                       ` Alan Stern
2006-09-21  1:43                                         ` Paul E. McKenney
2006-09-19 18:16                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2006-09-20 19:39                         ` Alan Stern
2006-09-21  1:34                           ` Paul E. McKenney
2006-09-21 20:59                             ` Alan Stern
2006-09-22  5:02                               ` Paul E. McKenney
2006-09-22 20:38                                 ` Alan Stern
2006-09-27 21:06                                 ` Alan Stern
2006-09-30  1:11                                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2006-09-30 21:01                                     ` Alan Stern
2006-10-02  0:06                                       ` Paul E. McKenney [this message]
2006-10-02 15:44                                         ` Alan Stern
2006-10-04 15:35                                           ` Paul E. McKenney
2006-10-04 18:04                                             ` Alan Stern
2006-10-13 16:51                                               ` Paul E. McKenney
2006-10-13 18:30                                                 ` Alan Stern
2006-10-13 22:39                                                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2006-10-14  2:27                                                     ` Alan Stern
2006-10-17  1:24                                                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2006-10-17 15:29                                                         ` Alan Stern
2006-10-17 17:27                                                           ` Paul E. McKenney
2006-10-17 19:42                                                             ` Alan Stern
2006-10-17 20:15                                                               ` Paul E. McKenney
2006-10-17 21:21                                                                 ` Alan Stern
2006-10-17 22:58                                                                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2006-10-18 19:05                                                                     ` Alan Stern
2006-10-18 23:01                                                                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2006-10-19 16:44                                                                         ` Alan Stern
2006-10-19 19:21                                                                           ` Paul E. McKenney
2006-10-19 20:55                                                                             ` Alan Stern
2006-10-19 22:46                                                                               ` Paul E. McKenney
2006-10-20 16:54                                                                                 ` Alan Stern
2006-10-21  0:59                                                                                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2006-10-21 19:47                                                                                     ` Alan Stern
2006-10-21 22:52                                                                                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2006-10-22  2:18                                                                                         ` Alan Stern
2006-10-23  5:32                                                                                           ` Paul E. McKenney
2006-10-23 14:07                                                                                             ` Alan Stern
2006-10-24 17:52                                                                                               ` Paul E. McKenney
     [not found] <200609082230.22225.oliver@neukum.org>
2006-09-08 21:26 ` Alan Stern
2006-09-08 21:46   ` Oliver Neukum
2006-09-08 22:25     ` Alan Stern
2006-09-08 22:49       ` Oliver Neukum
2006-09-09  2:25         ` Alan Stern
2006-09-11 16:21           ` Paul E. McKenney
2006-09-11 16:50             ` Alan Stern
2006-09-11 17:23               ` Segher Boessenkool
2006-09-11 19:04                 ` Paul E. McKenney
2006-09-11 19:03               ` Paul E. McKenney
2006-09-11 17:21             ` Segher Boessenkool
2006-09-11 19:48             ` Oliver Neukum
2006-09-11 20:29               ` Paul E. McKenney
2006-09-12  8:57           ` David Howells
2006-09-12  9:01           ` David Howells
2006-09-12 10:22             ` Oliver Neukum
2006-09-12 14:55               ` Paul E. McKenney
2006-09-12 15:07                 ` Oliver Neukum
2006-09-12 16:12                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2006-09-12 17:50                   ` Segher Boessenkool
2006-09-12 14:42             ` Paul E. McKenney
     [not found] <200609081929.33027.oliver@neukum.org>
2006-09-08 18:06 ` Alan Stern
2006-09-08 18:22   ` Oliver Neukum
2006-09-07 21:25 Alan Stern
2006-09-07 22:10 ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-09-08 18:39   ` Alan Stern
2006-09-08  0:14 ` Paul E. McKenney
2006-09-08 15:55   ` Alan Stern
2006-09-08 18:57     ` Paul E. McKenney
2006-09-08 21:23       ` Alan Stern
2006-09-09  0:44         ` Paul E. McKenney
2006-09-11 16:05           ` Alan Stern
2006-09-08  5:52 ` David Schwartz

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