From: Andi Kleen <ak@linux.intel.com>
To: Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>
Cc: Alexey Budankov <alexey.budankov@linux.intel.com>,
Tvrtko Ursulin <tvrtko.ursulin@linux.intel.com>,
Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>, Jann Horn <jannh@google.com>,
Tvrtko Ursulin <tursulin@ursulin.net>,
LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
x86@kernel.org, "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo <acme@kernel.org>,
Alexander Shishkin <alexander.shishkin@linux.intel.com>,
Jiri Olsa <jolsa@redhat.com>, Namhyung Kim <namhyung@kernel.org>,
Madhavan Srinivasan <maddy@linux.vnet.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC 0/5] perf: Per PMU access controls (paranoid setting)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 13:45:56 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20180928204556.GB32651@tassilo.jf.intel.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.21.1809281932040.1432@nanos.tec.linutronix.de>
> Right now we have a single knob, which is poorly documented and that should
> be fixed first. But some googling gives you the information that allowing
> unprivilegded access is a security risk. So the security focussed sysadmin
Ah only if google could simply answer all our questions!
> will deny access to the PMUs no matter what.
It's not like there is or isn't a security risk and that you
can say that it is or it isn't in a global way.
Essentially these are channels of information. The channels always exist
in form of timing variances for any shared resource (like shared caches
or shared memory/IO/interconnect bandwidth) that can be measured.
Perfmon counters make the channels generally less noisy, but they do not cause
them.
To really close them completely you would need to avoid sharing
anything, or not allowing to measure time, neither of which is practical
short of an air gap.
There are reasonable assesments you can make either way and the answers
will be different based on your requirements. There isn't a single
answer that works for everyone.
There are cases where it isn't a problem at all.
If you don't have multiple users on the system your tolerance
should be extremely high.
For users who have multiple users there can be different tradeoffs.
So there isn't a single answer, and that is why it is important
that this if configurable.
-Andi
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2018-09-28 20:46 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 38+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2018-09-19 12:27 Tvrtko Ursulin
2018-09-19 12:27 ` [RFC 1/5] perf: Move some access checks later in perf_event_open Tvrtko Ursulin
2018-09-19 12:27 ` [RFC 2/5] perf: Pass pmu pointer to perf_paranoid_* helpers Tvrtko Ursulin
2018-09-19 12:27 ` [RFC 3/5] perf: Allow per PMU access control Tvrtko Ursulin
2018-09-27 20:15 ` Andi Kleen
2018-09-28 8:57 ` Tvrtko Ursulin
2018-09-19 12:27 ` [RFC 4/5] perf Documentation: Document the per PMU perf_event_paranoid interface Tvrtko Ursulin
2018-09-19 12:27 ` [RFC 5/5] tools/perf: Add support for per-PMU access control Tvrtko Ursulin
2018-09-28 10:26 ` [RFC 0/5] perf: Per PMU access controls (paranoid setting) Thomas Gleixner
2018-09-28 13:22 ` Tvrtko Ursulin
2018-09-28 14:02 ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-09-28 14:56 ` Tvrtko Ursulin
2018-09-28 15:23 ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-09-28 15:45 ` Alexey Budankov
2018-09-28 18:20 ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-09-28 20:45 ` Andi Kleen [this message]
2018-09-29 6:19 ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-10-01 6:25 ` Alexey Budankov
2018-09-28 15:12 ` Jann Horn
2018-09-28 22:02 ` Jann Horn
2018-10-01 6:27 ` Alexey Budankov
2018-09-28 16:41 ` Mark Rutland
2018-09-28 17:23 ` Andi Kleen
2018-09-28 17:40 ` Mark Rutland
2018-09-28 20:49 ` Andi Kleen
2018-09-28 20:54 ` Jann Horn
2018-09-28 20:59 ` Andi Kleen
2018-09-28 21:22 ` Jann Horn
2018-09-28 21:27 ` Andi Kleen
2018-10-01 6:25 ` Alexey Budankov
2018-10-01 16:11 ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-10-01 16:15 ` Jann Horn
2018-10-01 20:51 ` Alexey Budankov
2018-10-02 6:40 ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-10-02 11:44 ` Alexey Budankov
2018-10-03 17:01 ` Jann Horn
2018-10-04 17:11 ` Alexey Budankov
2018-09-29 6:30 ` Thomas Gleixner
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