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From: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>
To: Phil Auld <pauld@redhat.com>
Cc: mingo@redhat.com, juri.lelli@redhat.com,
	vincent.guittot@linaro.org, dietmar.eggemann@arm.com,
	rostedt@goodmis.org, bsegall@google.com, mgorman@suse.de,
	vschneid@redhat.com, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	kprateek.nayak@amd.com, wuyun.abel@bytedance.com,
	youssefesmat@chromium.org, tglx@linutronix.de, efault@gmx.de
Subject: Re: [PATCH 17/24] sched/fair: Implement delayed dequeue
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2024 15:26:49 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20241101142649.GX9767@noisy.programming.kicks-ass.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20241101133822.GC689589@pauld.westford.csb>

On Fri, Nov 01, 2024 at 09:38:22AM -0400, Phil Auld wrote:

> How is delay dequeue causing more preemption? 

The thing delay dequeue does is it keeps !eligible tasks on the runqueue
until they're picked again. Them getting picked means they're eligible.
If at that point they're still not runnable, they're dequeued.

By keeping them around like this, they can earn back their lag.

The result is that the moment they get woken up again, they're going to
be eligible and are considered for preemption.


The whole thinking behind this is that while 'lag' measures the
mount of service difference from the ideal (positive lag will have less
service, while negative lag will have had too much service), this is
only true for the (constantly) competing task.

The moment a task leaves, will it still have had too much service? And
after a few seconds of inactivity?

So by keeping the deactivated tasks (artificially) in the competition
until they're at least at the equal service point, lets them burn off
some of that debt.

It is not dissimilar to how CFS had sleeper bonus, except that was
walltime based, while this is competition based.


Notably, this makes a significant difference for interactive tasks that
only run periodically. If they're not eligible at the point of wakeup,
they'll incur undue latency.


Now, I imagine FIO to have tasks blocking on IO, and while they're
blocked, they'll be earning their eligibility, such that when they're
woken they're good to go, preempting whatever.

Whatever doesn't seem to enjoy this.


Given BATCH makes such a terrible mess of things, I'm thinking FIO as a
whole does like preemption -- so now it's a question of figuring out
what exactly it does and doesn't like. Which is never trivial :/

  reply	other threads:[~2024-11-01 14:26 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 242+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2024-07-27 10:27 [PATCH 00/24] Complete EEVDF Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 01/24] sched/eevdf: Add feature comments Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18  6:23   ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 02/24] sched/eevdf: Remove min_vruntime_copy Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18  6:23   ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 03/24] sched/fair: Cleanup pick_task_fair() vs throttle Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18  6:23   ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 04/24] sched/fair: Cleanup pick_task_fair()s curr Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18  6:23   ` [tip: sched/core] sched/fair: Cleanup pick_task_fair()'s curr tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 05/24] sched/fair: Unify pick_{,next_}_task_fair() Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18  6:23   ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 06/24] sched: Allow sched_class::dequeue_task() to fail Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18  6:23   ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 07/24] sched/fair: Re-organize dequeue_task_fair() Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-09 16:53   ` Valentin Schneider
2024-08-10 22:17     ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-12 10:02       ` Valentin Schneider
2024-08-18  6:23   ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 08/24] sched: Split DEQUEUE_SLEEP from deactivate_task() Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18  6:23   ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 09/24] sched: Prepare generic code for delayed dequeue Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18  6:23   ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 10/24] sched/uclamg: Handle " Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18  6:23   ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-19  9:14     ` Christian Loehle
2024-08-20 16:23   ` [PATCH 10/24] " Hongyan Xia
2024-08-21 13:34   ` Hongyan Xia
2024-08-22  8:19     ` Vincent Guittot
2024-08-22  8:21       ` Vincent Guittot
2024-08-22  9:21       ` Luis Machado
2024-08-22  9:53         ` Vincent Guittot
2024-08-22 10:20           ` Vincent Guittot
2024-08-22 10:28           ` Luis Machado
2024-08-22 12:07             ` Luis Machado
2024-08-22 12:10               ` Vincent Guittot
2024-08-22 14:58                 ` Vincent Guittot
2024-08-29 15:42                   ` Hongyan Xia
2024-09-05 13:02                     ` Dietmar Eggemann
2024-09-05 13:33                       ` Vincent Guittot
2024-09-05 14:07                         ` Dietmar Eggemann
2024-09-05 14:29                           ` Vincent Guittot
2024-09-05 14:50                             ` Dietmar Eggemann
2024-09-05 14:53                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-09-06  6:14                             ` Vincent Guittot
2024-09-06 10:45                             ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-09-08  7:43                               ` Mike Galbraith
2024-09-10  8:09                               ` [tip: sched/core] sched/eevdf: More PELT vs DELAYED_DEQUEUE tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-11-27  4:17                                 ` K Prateek Nayak
2024-11-27  9:34                                   ` Luis Machado
2024-11-28  6:35                                     ` K Prateek Nayak
2024-09-10 11:04                               ` [PATCH 10/24] sched/uclamg: Handle delayed dequeue Luis Machado
2024-09-10 14:05                                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-09-11  8:35                                   ` Luis Machado
2024-09-11  8:45                                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-09-11  8:55                                       ` Luis Machado
2024-09-11  9:10                                       ` Mike Galbraith
2024-09-11  9:13                                         ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-09-11  9:27                                           ` Mike Galbraith
2024-09-12 14:00                                             ` Mike Galbraith
2024-09-13 16:39                                               ` Mike Galbraith
2024-09-14  3:40                                                 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-09-24 15:16                                                   ` Luis Machado
2024-09-24 17:35                                                     ` Mike Galbraith
2024-09-25  5:14                                                       ` Mike Galbraith
2024-09-11 11:49                                           ` Dietmar Eggemann
2024-09-11  9:38                                         ` Luis Machado
2024-09-12 12:58                                         ` Luis Machado
2024-09-12 20:44                                           ` Dietmar Eggemann
2024-09-11 10:46                                       ` Luis Machado
2024-09-06  9:55                           ` Dietmar Eggemann
2024-09-05 14:18                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-09-10  8:09                       ` [tip: sched/core] kernel/sched: Fix util_est accounting for DELAY_DEQUEUE tip-bot2 for Dietmar Eggemann
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 11/24] sched/fair: Assert {set_next,put_prev}_entity() are properly balanced Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18  6:23   ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 12/24] sched/fair: Prepare exit/cleanup paths for delayed_dequeue Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-13 12:43   ` Valentin Schneider
2024-08-13 21:54     ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-13 22:07       ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-14  5:53         ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-27  9:35           ` Chen Yu
2024-08-27 20:29             ` Valentin Schneider
2024-08-28  2:55               ` Chen Yu
2024-08-18  6:23   ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-27  9:17   ` [PATCH 12/24] " Chen Yu
2024-08-28  3:06     ` Chen Yu
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 13/24] sched/fair: Prepare pick_next_task() for delayed dequeue Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18  6:23   ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-09-10  9:16   ` [PATCH 13/24] " Luis Machado
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 14/24] sched/fair: Implement ENQUEUE_DELAYED Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18  6:23   ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 15/24] sched,freezer: Mark TASK_FROZEN special Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18  6:23   ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 16/24] sched: Teach dequeue_task() about special task states Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18  6:23   ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 17/24] sched/fair: Implement delayed dequeue Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-02 14:39   ` Valentin Schneider
2024-08-02 14:59     ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-02 16:32       ` Valentin Schneider
2024-08-18  6:23   ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-19 10:01   ` [PATCH 17/24] " Luis Machado
     [not found]   ` <CGME20240828223802eucas1p16755f4531ed0611dc4871649746ea774@eucas1p1.samsung.com>
2024-08-28 22:38     ` Marek Szyprowski
2024-10-10  2:49       ` Sean Christopherson
2024-10-10  7:57         ` Mike Galbraith
2024-10-10 16:18           ` Sean Christopherson
2024-10-10 17:12             ` Mike Galbraith
2024-10-10  8:19         ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-10-10  9:18           ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-10-10 18:23             ` Sean Christopherson
2024-10-12 14:15             ` [tip: sched/urgent] sched: Fix external p->on_rq users tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-10-14  7:28             ` [tip: sched/urgent] sched/fair: " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-11-01 12:47   ` [PATCH 17/24] sched/fair: Implement delayed dequeue Phil Auld
2024-11-01 12:56     ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-11-01 13:38       ` Phil Auld
2024-11-01 14:26         ` Peter Zijlstra [this message]
2024-11-01 14:42           ` Phil Auld
2024-11-01 18:08             ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-01 20:07               ` Phil Auld
2024-11-02  4:32                 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-04 13:05                   ` Phil Auld
2024-11-05  4:05                     ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-05  4:22                       ` K Prateek Nayak
2024-11-05  6:46                         ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-06  3:02                           ` K Prateek Nayak
2024-11-05 15:20                       ` Phil Auld
2024-11-05 19:05                         ` Phil Auld
2024-11-06  2:45                           ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-06 13:53                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-11-06 14:14                         ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-11-06 14:38                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-11-06 15:22                           ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-07  4:03                             ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-07  9:46                               ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-07 14:02                                 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-07 14:09                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-11-08  0:24                                     ` [PATCH] sched/fair: Dequeue sched_delayed tasks when waking to a busy CPU Mike Galbraith
2024-11-08 13:34                                       ` Phil Auld
2024-11-11  2:46                                       ` Xuewen Yan
2024-11-11  3:53                                         ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-12  7:05                                       ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-12 12:41                                         ` Phil Auld
2024-11-12 14:23                                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-11-12 14:23                                           ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-12 15:41                                             ` Phil Auld
2024-11-12 16:15                                               ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-14 11:07                                                 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-14 11:28                                                   ` Phil Auld
2024-11-19 11:30                                                     ` Phil Auld
2024-11-19 11:51                                                       ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-20 18:37                                                         ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-21 11:56                                                           ` Phil Auld
2024-11-21 12:07                                                             ` Phil Auld
2024-11-21 21:21                                                               ` Phil Auld
2024-11-23  8:44                                                             ` [PATCH V2] " Mike Galbraith
2024-11-26  5:32                                                               ` K Prateek Nayak
2024-11-26  6:30                                                                 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-26  9:42                                                                   ` Mike Galbraith
2024-12-02 19:15                                                                     ` Phil Auld
2024-11-27 14:13                                                                   ` Mike Galbraith
2024-12-02 16:24                                                               ` Phil Auld
2024-12-02 16:55                                                                 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-12-02 19:12                                                                   ` Phil Auld
2024-12-09 13:11                                                                     ` Phil Auld
2024-12-09 15:06                                                                       ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-06 14:14                         ` [PATCH 17/24] sched/fair: Implement delayed dequeue Mike Galbraith
2024-11-06 14:33                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-11-04  9:28     ` Dietmar Eggemann
2024-11-04 11:55       ` Dietmar Eggemann
2024-11-04 12:50       ` Phil Auld
2024-11-05  9:53         ` Christian Loehle
2024-11-05 15:55           ` Phil Auld
2024-11-08 14:53         ` Dietmar Eggemann
2024-11-08 18:16           ` Phil Auld
2024-11-11 11:29             ` Dietmar Eggemann
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 18/24] sched/fair: Implement DELAY_ZERO Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18  6:23   ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 19/24] sched/eevdf: Fixup PELT vs DELAYED_DEQUEUE Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-13 12:43   ` Valentin Schneider
2024-08-13 22:18     ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-14  7:25       ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-14  7:28         ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-14 10:23         ` Valentin Schneider
2024-08-14 12:59       ` Vincent Guittot
2024-08-17 23:06         ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-19 12:50           ` Vincent Guittot
2024-08-18  6:23   ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 20/24] sched/fair: Avoid re-setting virtual deadline on migrations Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18  6:23   ` [tip: sched/core] sched/fair: Avoid re-setting virtual deadline on 'migrations' tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 21/24] sched/eevdf: Allow shorter slices to wakeup-preempt Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-05 12:24   ` Chunxin Zang
2024-08-07 17:54     ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-13 10:44       ` Chunxin Zang
2024-08-08 10:15   ` Chen Yu
2024-08-08 10:22     ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-08 12:31       ` Chen Yu
2024-08-09  7:35         ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18  6:23   ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 22/24] sched/eevdf: Use sched_attr::sched_runtime to set request/slice suggestion Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18  6:23   ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 23/24] sched/eevdf: Propagate min_slice up the cgroup hierarchy Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18  6:23   ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-09-29  2:02   ` [PATCH 23/24] " Tianchen Ding
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [RFC PATCH 24/24] sched/time: Introduce CLOCK_THREAD_DVFS_ID Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-28 21:30   ` Thomas Gleixner
2024-07-29  7:53   ` Juri Lelli
2024-08-02 11:29     ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-19 11:11   ` Christian Loehle
2024-08-01 12:08 ` [PATCH 00/24] Complete EEVDF Luis Machado
2024-08-14 14:34 ` Vincent Guittot
2024-08-14 16:45   ` Mike Galbraith
2024-08-14 16:59     ` Vincent Guittot
2024-08-14 17:18       ` Mike Galbraith
2024-08-14 17:25         ` Vincent Guittot
2024-08-14 17:35       ` K Prateek Nayak
2024-08-16 15:22 ` Valentin Schneider
2024-08-20 16:43 ` Hongyan Xia
2024-08-21  9:46   ` Hongyan Xia
2024-08-21 16:25     ` Mike Galbraith
2024-08-22 15:55     ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-27  9:43       ` Hongyan Xia
2024-08-29 17:02 ` Aleksandr Nogikh
2024-09-10 11:45 ` Sven Schnelle
2024-09-10 12:21   ` Sven Schnelle
2024-09-10 14:07     ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-09-10 14:52       ` Sven Schnelle
2024-11-06  1:07 ` Saravana Kannan
2024-11-06  6:19   ` K Prateek Nayak
2024-11-06 11:09     ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-11-06 12:06       ` Luis Machado
2024-11-08  7:07         ` Saravana Kannan
2024-11-08 23:17           ` Samuel Wu
2024-11-11  4:07             ` K Prateek Nayak
2024-11-26 23:32               ` Saravana Kannan
2024-11-28 10:32 ` [REGRESSION] " Marcel Ziswiler
2024-11-28 10:58   ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-11-28 11:37     ` Marcel Ziswiler
2024-11-29  9:08       ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-12-02 18:46         ` Marcel Ziswiler
2024-12-09  9:49           ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-12-10 16:05             ` Marcel Ziswiler
2024-12-10 16:13           ` Steven Rostedt
2024-12-10  8:45   ` Luis Machado
2024-08-30 12:34 [PATCH 17/24] sched/fair: Implement delayed dequeue Bert Karwatzki

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