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From: "Mickaël Salaün" <mic@digikod.net>
To: Jann Horn <jannh@google.com>
Cc: Al Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
	 Christian Brauner <brauner@kernel.org>,
	Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>,
	 Paul Moore <paul@paul-moore.com>,
	Serge Hallyn <serge@hallyn.com>,
	 Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>, Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>,
	 Christian Heimes <christian@python.org>,
	Dmitry Vyukov <dvyukov@google.com>,
	 Elliott Hughes <enh@google.com>,
	Fan Wu <wufan@linux.microsoft.com>,
	 Florian Weimer <fweimer@redhat.com>, Jeff Xu <jeffxu@google.com>,
	Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>,
	 Jordan R Abrahams <ajordanr@google.com>,
	Lakshmi Ramasubramanian <nramas@linux.microsoft.com>,
	 Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org>,
	Matt Bobrowski <mattbobrowski@google.com>,
	 Miklos Szeredi <mszeredi@redhat.com>,
	Mimi Zohar <zohar@linux.ibm.com>,
	 Nicolas Bouchinet <nicolas.bouchinet@oss.cyber.gouv.fr>,
	Robert Waite <rowait@microsoft.com>,
	 Roberto Sassu <roberto.sassu@huawei.com>,
	Scott Shell <scottsh@microsoft.com>,
	 Steve Dower <steve.dower@python.org>,
	Steve Grubb <sgrubb@redhat.com>,
	 kernel-hardening@lists.openwall.com, linux-api@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org,  linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	 linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>,
	 Jeff Xu <jeffxu@chromium.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v1 1/2] fs: Add O_DENY_WRITE
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2025 13:03:09 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20250824.Ujoh8unahy5a@digikod.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAG48ez1XjUdcFztc_pF2qcoLi7xvfpJ224Ypc=FoGi-Px-qyZw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 22, 2025 at 09:45:32PM +0200, Jann Horn wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 22, 2025 at 7:08 PM Mickaël Salaün <mic@digikod.net> wrote:
> > Add a new O_DENY_WRITE flag usable at open time and on opened file (e.g.
> > passed file descriptors).  This changes the state of the opened file by
> > making it read-only until it is closed.  The main use case is for script
> > interpreters to get the guarantee that script' content cannot be altered
> > while being read and interpreted.  This is useful for generic distros
> > that may not have a write-xor-execute policy.  See commit a5874fde3c08
> > ("exec: Add a new AT_EXECVE_CHECK flag to execveat(2)")
> >
> > Both execve(2) and the IOCTL to enable fsverity can already set this
> > property on files with deny_write_access().  This new O_DENY_WRITE make
> 
> The kernel actually tried to get rid of this behavior on execve() in
> commit 2a010c41285345da60cece35575b4e0af7e7bf44.; but sadly that had
> to be reverted in commit 3b832035387ff508fdcf0fba66701afc78f79e3d
> because it broke userspace assumptions.

Oh, good to know.

> 
> > it widely available.  This is similar to what other OSs may provide
> > e.g., opening a file with only FILE_SHARE_READ on Windows.
> 
> We used to have the analogous mmap() flag MAP_DENYWRITE, and that was
> removed for security reasons; as
> https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man2/mmap.2.html says:
> 
> |        MAP_DENYWRITE
> |               This flag is ignored.  (Long ago—Linux 2.0 and earlier—it
> |               signaled that attempts to write to the underlying file
> |               should fail with ETXTBSY.  But this was a source of denial-
> |               of-service attacks.)"
> 
> It seems to me that the same issue applies to your patch - it would
> allow unprivileged processes to essentially lock files such that other
> processes can't write to them anymore. This might allow unprivileged
> users to prevent root from updating config files or stuff like that if
> they're updated in-place.

Yes, I agree, but since it is the case for executed files I though it
was worth starting a discussion on this topic.  This new flag could be
restricted to executable files, but we should avoid system-wide locks
like this.  I'm not sure how Windows handle these issues though.

Anyway, we should rely on the access control policy to control write and
execute access in a consistent way (e.g. write-xor-execute).  Thanks for
the references and the background!

  reply	other threads:[~2025-08-24 11:03 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 40+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2025-08-22 17:07 [RFC PATCH v1 0/2] Add O_DENY_WRITE (complement AT_EXECVE_CHECK) Mickaël Salaün
2025-08-22 17:07 ` [RFC PATCH v1 1/2] fs: Add O_DENY_WRITE Mickaël Salaün
2025-08-22 19:45   ` Jann Horn
2025-08-24 11:03     ` Mickaël Salaün [this message]
2025-08-24 18:04       ` Andy Lutomirski
2025-08-25  9:31         ` Mickaël Salaün
2025-08-25  9:39           ` Florian Weimer
2025-08-26 12:35             ` Mickaël Salaün
2025-08-25 16:43           ` Andy Lutomirski
2025-08-25 18:10             ` Jeff Xu
2025-08-25 17:57           ` Jeff Xu
2025-08-26 12:39             ` Mickaël Salaün
2025-08-26 20:29               ` Jeff Xu
2025-08-27  8:19                 ` Mickaël Salaün
2025-08-28 20:17                   ` Jeff Xu
2025-08-27 10:18     ` Aleksa Sarai
2025-08-27 10:29   ` Aleksa Sarai
2025-08-22 17:08 ` [RFC PATCH v1 2/2] selftests/exec: Add O_DENY_WRITE tests Mickaël Salaün
2025-08-26  9:07 ` [RFC PATCH v1 0/2] Add O_DENY_WRITE (complement AT_EXECVE_CHECK) Christian Brauner
2025-08-26 11:23   ` Mickaël Salaün
2025-08-26 12:30     ` Theodore Ts'o
2025-08-26 17:47       ` Mickaël Salaün
2025-08-26 20:50         ` Theodore Ts'o
2025-08-27  8:19           ` Mickaël Salaün
2025-08-27 17:35         ` Andy Lutomirski
2025-08-27 19:07           ` Mickaël Salaün
2025-08-27 20:35             ` Andy Lutomirski
2025-08-28  0:14     ` Aleksa Sarai
2025-08-28  0:32       ` Andy Lutomirski
2025-08-28  0:52         ` Aleksa Sarai
2025-08-28 21:01         ` Serge E. Hallyn
2025-09-01 11:05           ` Jann Horn
2025-09-01 13:18             ` Serge E. Hallyn
2025-09-01 16:01             ` Andy Lutomirski
2025-09-01  9:24       ` Roberto Sassu
2025-09-01 16:25         ` Andy Lutomirski
2025-09-01 17:01           ` Roberto Sassu
2025-09-02  8:57             ` Roberto Sassu
2025-08-25 21:56 [RFC PATCH v1 1/2] fs: Add O_DENY_WRITE Andy Lutomirski
2025-08-25 23:06 ` Jeff Xu

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