Re: [RFC PATCH v1 0/2] Add O_DENY_WRITE (complement AT_EXECVE_CHECK)

["Mickaël Salaün" <mic@digikod.net>]

On Tue, Aug 26, 2025 at 11:07:03AM +0200, Christian Brauner wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 22, 2025 at 07:07:58PM +0200, Mickaël Salaün wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Script interpreters can check if a file would be allowed to be executed
> > by the kernel using the new AT_EXECVE_CHECK flag. This approach works
> > well on systems with write-xor-execute policies, where scripts cannot
> > be modified by malicious processes. However, this protection may not be
> > available on more generic distributions.
> > 
> > The key difference between `./script.sh` and `sh script.sh` (when using
> > AT_EXECVE_CHECK) is that execve(2) prevents the script from being opened
> > for writing while it's being executed. To achieve parity, the kernel
> > should provide a mechanism for script interpreters to deny write access
> > during script interpretation. While interpreters can copy script content
> > into a buffer, a race condition remains possible after AT_EXECVE_CHECK.
> > 
> > This patch series introduces a new O_DENY_WRITE flag for use with
> > open*(2) and fcntl(2). Both interfaces are necessary since script
> > interpreters may receive either a file path or file descriptor. For
> > backward compatibility, open(2) with O_DENY_WRITE will not fail on
> > unsupported systems, while users requiring explicit support guarantees
> > can use openat2(2).
> 
> We've said no to abusing the O_* flag space for that AT_EXECVE_* stuff
> before and you've been told by Linus as well that this is a nogo.

Oh, please, don't mix up everything.  First, this is an RFC, and as I
explained, the goal is to start a discussion with something concrete.
Second, doing a one-time check on a file and providing guarantees for
the whole lifetime of an opened file requires different approaches,
hence this O_ *proposal*.

> 
> Nothing has changed in that regard and I'm not interested in stuffing
> the VFS APIs full of special-purpose behavior to work around the fact
> that this is work that needs to be done in userspace. Change the apps,
> stop pushing more and more cruft into the VFS that has no business
> there.

It would be interesting to know how to patch user space to get the same
guarantees...  Do you think I would propose a kernel patch otherwise?

> 
> That's before we get into all the issues that are introduced by this
> mechanism that magically makes arbitrary files unwritable. It's not just
> a DoS it's likely to cause breakage in userspace as well. I removed the
> deny-write from execve because it already breaks various use-cases or
> leads to spurious failures in e.g., go. We're not spreading this disease
> as a first-class VFS API.

Jann explained it very well, and the deny-write for execve is still
there, but let's keep it civil.  I already agreed that this is not a
good approach, but we could get interesting proposals.