From: Jon Masters <jonmasters@gmail.com>
To: Andrea Arcangeli <andrea@suse.de>
Cc: William Lee Irwin III <wli@holomorphy.com>,
Arjan van de Ven <arjan@infradead.org>,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Linux in a binary world... a doomsday scenario
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 17:23:01 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <35fb2e590512060923o37ffa286qb11286f387cabb4f@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20051206011844.GO28539@opteron.random>
On 12/6/05, Andrea Arcangeli <andrea@suse.de> wrote:
> I am convinced that the only way to stop the erosion is to totally stop
> buying hardware that has only binary only drivers (unless you buy it to
> create an open source driver or to reverse engineer the binary only
> driver of course! ;).
That's not enough people to make a big enough difference - but I agree
with the logic and do my part.
One idea for dealing with this is to have the kernel complain more
loudly about binary only drivers - instead of using terms like "taint"
which Sysadmins might casually ignore it might be better to have a
couple of lines of warning message in their syslog explaining what it
means in more graphic terms. Granted that average users won't see this
but it would certainly help to convey the impression that binary only
is "wrong" (it's not putting policy in the kernel, it's embedded
politics in the kernel :P).
> I think messages like the one from Arjan are very positive to let
> people understand the long term effect of binary only drivers
I wrote a couple of articles this month which explain to the average
reader what is wrong with this and how it can be addressed. I used
Greg's mail as an example but will followup with a reference to this
thread - we need to encourage more people to talk about this.
> Perhaps we should add a printk that points to an url on kernel.org
> including Arjan's message every time a non-gpl module gets loaded by the
> kernel. I think it's a matter of educating the customer too or they can
> do mistakes, creating a blacklist would help too.
I like the idea of being far more graphic (no pun intended there) by
describing what this means in everyday language - "using binary only
drivers causes your machine to explode! (may not actually cause
machine to explode)" type stuff.
Jon.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2005-12-06 17:23 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 315+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2005-12-05 10:52 Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-05 11:39 ` Dave Airlie
2005-12-05 13:55 ` Xavier Bestel
2005-12-08 14:27 ` Graham Murray
2005-12-05 12:18 ` William Lee Irwin III
2005-12-05 13:07 ` Pekka Enberg
2005-12-05 18:44 ` Alistair John Strachan
2005-12-05 19:47 ` Gene Heskett
2005-12-06 10:51 ` Luke-Jr
2005-12-06 12:29 ` Ralf Baechle
2005-12-07 0:01 ` William Lee Irwin III
2005-12-06 17:03 ` Jon Masters
2005-12-06 1:18 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-12-05 14:31 ` Brian Gerst
2005-12-06 3:08 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-12-05 16:23 ` Brian Gerst
2005-12-06 18:42 ` David Woodhouse
2005-12-06 19:23 ` Alan Cox
2005-12-06 21:33 ` Jeff Garzik
2005-12-06 22:25 ` David Woodhouse
2005-12-06 22:49 ` Alan Cox
2005-12-06 23:03 ` David Woodhouse
2005-12-06 23:25 ` Andrew Grover
2005-12-07 0:56 ` David Woodhouse
2005-12-06 10:42 ` Sander
[not found] ` <f0cc38560512060307m2ccc6db8xd9180c2a1a926c5c@mail.gmail.com>
2005-12-06 11:44 ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-06 1:43 ` Brian Gerst
2005-12-06 14:09 ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2005-12-14 16:33 ` Eric W. Biederman
2005-12-14 17:01 ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2005-12-14 17:20 ` Eric W. Biederman
2005-12-14 18:51 ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2005-12-06 14:13 ` Rudolf Randal
2005-12-06 14:49 ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-06 21:39 ` Nicolas Mailhot
2005-12-08 0:58 ` Kasper Sandberg
2005-12-08 2:24 ` Diego Calleja
2005-12-08 6:21 ` Zwane Mwaikambo
2005-12-08 12:31 ` Diego Calleja
2005-12-08 12:39 ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-08 13:01 ` Matan Peled
2005-12-08 16:55 ` Kasper Sandberg
2005-12-08 19:32 ` Horst von Brand
2005-12-08 21:10 ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2005-12-09 6:12 ` Ben Greear
2005-12-07 7:02 ` Luke-Jr
2005-12-07 7:03 ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-06 15:16 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-12-06 15:30 ` Florian Weimer
2005-12-06 15:49 ` Paweł Sikora
2005-12-06 19:00 ` Tomasz Torcz
2005-12-06 19:11 ` Paweł Sikora
2005-12-06 19:34 ` Tomasz Torcz
2005-12-06 20:29 ` Dave Jones
2005-12-06 23:25 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2005-12-06 19:13 ` Jeff Garzik
2005-12-06 19:37 ` Lee Revell
2005-12-06 19:41 ` Jeff Garzik
2005-12-06 19:55 ` Lee Revell
2005-12-06 20:25 ` Alan Cox
2005-12-06 21:55 ` Dave Airlie
2005-12-06 21:49 ` Reverse engineering (was Re: Linux in a binary world... a doomsday scenario) Jeff Garzik
2005-12-06 20:54 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2005-12-06 23:13 ` Reverse engineering Bernd Petrovitsch
2005-12-06 23:19 ` Lee Revell
2005-12-06 22:21 ` Reverse engineering (was Re: Linux in a binary world... a doomsday scenario) Lee Revell
2005-12-06 23:48 ` Jeff Garzik
2005-12-06 22:44 ` Linux in a binary world... a doomsday scenario Florian Weimer
2005-12-06 22:56 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-12-06 23:17 ` Lee Revell
2005-12-06 21:00 ` Francois Romieu
2005-12-08 1:04 ` Kasper Sandberg
[not found] ` <6f6293f10512060404x57cfb97dqaa469f2701cd2528@mail.gmail.com>
2005-12-06 12:11 ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-06 15:09 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-12-06 9:07 ` Dirk Steuwer
2005-12-06 10:46 ` Sander
2005-12-06 16:41 ` Dirk Steuwer
2005-12-06 18:48 ` Lee Revell
2005-12-06 21:35 ` Grahame White
2005-12-07 8:09 ` Dirk Steuwer
2005-12-07 12:47 ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2005-12-07 0:45 ` Horst von Brand
2005-12-07 14:17 ` Runs with Linux (tm) Benjamin LaHaise
2005-12-07 14:34 ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2005-12-07 18:13 ` Randy.Dunlap
2005-12-07 18:22 ` Jesse Barnes
2005-12-12 21:13 ` David Lang
2005-12-12 21:20 ` Randy.Dunlap
2005-12-07 19:12 ` Lee Revell
2005-12-07 19:47 ` Benjamin LaHaise
2005-12-07 22:23 ` Jeffrey Hundstad
1970-01-02 3:28 ` Pavel Machek
2005-12-07 22:29 ` Michael Poole
2005-12-08 8:08 ` Helge Hafting
2005-12-07 22:49 ` Benjamin LaHaise
2005-12-08 3:28 ` Magnus Damm
2005-12-08 2:07 ` Richard Knutsson
2005-12-08 2:38 ` Benjamin LaHaise
2005-12-08 4:15 ` Richard Knutsson
2005-12-08 8:50 ` free Driver proposal (tm) Dirk Steuwer
2005-12-08 9:42 ` Runs with Linux (tm) jerome lacoste
2005-12-08 11:04 ` Felix Oxley
2005-12-08 11:48 ` jerome lacoste
2005-12-08 12:23 ` Felix Oxley
2005-12-09 5:49 ` Linux in a binary world... a doomsday scenario Miles Bader
2005-12-09 9:49 ` Felix Oxley
2005-12-09 9:53 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2005-12-06 15:17 ` Pavel Machek
2005-12-13 2:00 ` Rob Landley
2005-12-13 7:56 ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-13 9:07 ` Rob Landley
2005-12-13 10:18 ` Felix Oxley
2005-12-07 15:06 ` Rik van Riel
2005-12-08 7:14 ` Andrew McGregor
2005-12-06 8:29 ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-07 18:39 ` Rik van Riel
2005-12-07 18:44 ` Randy.Dunlap
2005-12-07 18:55 ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-07 19:53 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2005-12-07 20:22 ` Gerrit Huizenga
2005-12-07 20:30 ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-07 20:56 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-12-07 21:02 ` Dave Jones
2005-12-07 21:30 ` Gerrit Huizenga
2005-12-07 21:38 ` David S. Miller
2005-12-07 21:47 ` Andrew Walrond
2005-12-07 21:53 ` Gerrit Huizenga
2005-12-12 17:52 ` Ric Wheeler
2005-12-13 8:17 ` Andrew Walrond
2005-12-07 20:16 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-12-07 20:19 ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-07 20:40 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-12-08 13:23 ` Dirk Steuwer
2005-12-08 14:03 ` Diego Calleja
2005-12-08 18:44 ` Dave Neuer
2005-12-07 20:51 ` Rik van Riel
2005-12-07 19:34 ` Lee Revell
2005-12-07 23:17 ` Horst von Brand
2005-12-09 6:17 ` Ben Greear
2005-12-08 10:58 ` Sander
2005-12-06 12:26 ` Denis Vlasenko
2005-12-06 15:36 ` Hannu Savolainen
2005-12-06 18:51 ` Lee Revell
2005-12-06 20:26 ` Hannu Savolainen
2005-12-07 15:18 ` Avi Kivity
2005-12-07 20:10 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
[not found] ` <f0cc38560512071322m1d370589vd9f8a7684fa2ee1d@mail.gmail.com>
2005-12-08 12:19 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2005-12-06 17:23 ` Jon Masters [this message]
2005-12-05 17:18 ` Jeff Garzik
2005-12-05 17:29 ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2005-12-05 22:52 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2005-12-06 6:28 ` Rob Landley
2005-12-05 18:26 ` Andrew Walrond
2005-12-05 18:34 ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-05 19:41 ` jmerkey
2005-12-06 9:26 ` [OT] " Alexander E. Patrakov
2005-12-06 16:27 ` Simon Oosthoek
2005-12-06 18:50 ` Luke-Jr
2005-12-08 8:14 ` Helge Hafting
2005-12-08 11:30 ` Luke-Jr
2005-12-12 11:27 ` Helge Hafting
2005-12-08 13:48 ` Nix
2005-12-12 12:01 ` Helge Hafting
2005-12-12 19:46 ` Nix
2005-12-13 8:10 ` Helge Hafting
2005-12-13 22:21 ` Nix
2005-12-14 8:14 ` Helge Hafting
2005-12-16 7:38 ` Nix
2005-12-05 21:19 ` David Woodhouse
2005-12-05 21:24 ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-05 21:54 ` David Woodhouse
2005-12-05 23:56 ` Tim Bird
2005-12-06 0:10 ` Dave Airlie
2005-12-06 0:23 ` Tim Bird
2005-12-06 0:26 ` Tim Bird
2005-12-06 4:08 ` Greg KH
2005-12-06 6:07 ` Willy Tarreau
2005-12-06 7:06 ` Neil Brown
2005-12-06 8:13 ` David Woodhouse
2005-12-06 9:10 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2005-12-06 16:47 ` Greg KH
2005-12-06 7:58 ` Coywolf Qi Hunt
2005-12-06 16:11 ` Greg KH
2005-12-07 1:38 ` Coywolf Qi Hunt
2005-12-07 2:40 ` Greg KH
2005-12-07 3:23 ` Coywolf Qi Hunt
2005-12-07 5:29 ` Greg KH
2005-12-07 18:57 ` Horst von Brand
2005-12-10 5:17 ` GNU/Linux " Richard M. Stallman
2005-12-06 18:56 ` Linux " Luke-Jr
2005-12-07 1:42 ` Coywolf Qi Hunt
2005-12-07 2:06 ` Wed, 7 Dec 2005 03:06:35 +0100
2005-12-07 5:25 ` Jeff Garzik
2005-12-10 5:16 ` GNU/Linux " Richard M. Stallman
2005-12-10 7:06 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2005-12-10 16:43 ` Helge Hafting
2005-12-10 19:05 ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2005-12-10 18:44 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2005-12-10 19:15 ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2005-12-10 20:44 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2005-12-10 21:47 ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2005-12-11 13:56 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2005-12-11 15:15 ` Erwin Rol
2005-12-11 16:38 ` Florian Weimer
2005-12-12 15:51 ` Alan Cox
2005-12-11 16:27 ` Florian Weimer
2005-12-11 16:49 ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-12-11 23:19 ` Helge Hafting
2005-12-12 13:45 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2005-12-12 15:34 ` Lee Revell
2005-12-12 15:37 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2005-12-11 13:24 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
[not found] ` <39068.10.10.10.28.1134245083.squirrel@linux1>
2005-12-10 20:04 ` [way OT] " Sean
2005-12-11 2:12 ` Horst von Brand
2005-12-11 5:40 ` Patrick McLean
[not found] ` <E1ElJMz-00047E-1p@fencepost.gnu.org>
2005-12-11 8:34 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2005-12-12 0:44 ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-12-12 0:50 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2005-12-12 3:03 ` Luke-Jr
2005-12-06 4:18 ` Linux " Al Viro
2005-12-06 2:22 ` Gene Heskett
2005-12-06 3:56 ` Zwane Mwaikambo
2005-12-06 4:27 ` Gene Heskett
2005-12-06 18:33 ` Jesper Juhl
2005-12-06 19:12 ` Zwane Mwaikambo
2005-12-06 19:15 ` Jesper Juhl
2005-12-08 21:49 ` Rob Landley
2005-12-10 2:38 ` Lee Revell
2005-12-10 5:51 ` Luke-Jr
2005-12-06 11:38 ` Jean-Christian de Rivaz
2005-12-06 19:12 ` Jesper Juhl
2005-12-06 21:13 ` Jon Masters
2005-12-06 0:14 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2005-12-06 0:34 ` David Woodhouse
2005-12-06 0:53 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-12-06 1:20 ` Tim Bird
2005-12-06 1:35 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-12-06 1:55 ` Jeff Garzik
2005-12-06 9:16 ` Xavier Bestel
2005-12-06 9:26 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2005-12-06 9:56 ` David Woodhouse
2005-12-06 10:09 ` Jeff Garzik
2005-12-06 14:50 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-12-06 15:25 ` David Woodhouse
2005-12-06 19:58 ` Alan Cox
2005-12-06 19:20 ` Jeff Garzik
2005-12-06 4:12 ` Greg KH
2005-12-06 4:18 ` Michael Poole
2005-12-06 17:21 ` Benjamin LaHaise
2005-12-07 12:39 ` Helge Hafting
2005-12-07 12:41 ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-12-07 14:25 ` Rik van Riel
2005-12-07 15:56 ` Michael Poole
2005-12-06 18:19 ` Theodore Ts'o
2005-12-06 19:27 ` Alan Cox
2005-12-06 19:38 ` Theodore Ts'o
2005-12-06 20:18 ` Alan Cox
2005-12-06 20:53 ` Theodore Ts'o
2005-12-07 14:30 ` Rik van Riel
2005-12-05 23:24 ` Matthieu CASTET
2005-12-06 13:28 ` Ralf Baechle
2005-12-06 2:58 ` Andre Hedrick
2005-12-06 13:13 ` Rudolf Randal
2005-12-06 15:09 ` Mark Lord
2005-12-06 16:16 ` Jon Smirl
2005-12-06 16:32 ` Florian Weimer
2005-12-07 12:44 ` Helge Hafting
2005-12-07 12:49 ` Alan Cox
2005-12-07 16:15 ` Jon Smirl
2005-12-07 12:55 ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2005-12-07 21:46 ` Chase Venters
2005-12-07 23:07 ` Alan Cox
2005-12-07 23:41 ` Jon Smirl
2005-12-07 23:59 ` Chase Venters
2005-12-08 8:24 ` Helge Hafting
2005-12-06 14:23 Aimo Asiakas
2005-12-06 14:36 ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-06 15:31 ` Pekka Enberg
2005-12-07 21:06 Salyzyn, Mark
2005-12-12 14:45 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-12-13 8:25 ` Helge Hafting
2005-12-13 9:44 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2005-12-13 12:14 ` Alan Cox
2005-12-14 8:59 ` Helge Hafting
2005-12-14 9:14 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2005-12-13 17:02 ` Gene Heskett
2005-12-14 8:48 ` Helge Hafting
2005-12-08 10:27 Nicolas Mailhot
2005-12-09 15:59 ` Dirk Steuwer
2005-12-08 15:49 AW: " dirk
2005-12-08 16:14 ` Diego Calleja
2005-12-08 20:28 ` Horst von Brand
[not found] <20051208083941.B233113E51@rhn.tartu-labor>
2005-12-08 17:13 ` Kasper Sandberg
2005-12-13 22:59 mreuther
2005-12-13 23:05 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2005-12-13 23:54 art
2005-12-14 21:13 Al Boldi
2005-12-14 21:27 ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-15 4:49 ` Al Boldi
2005-12-15 5:24 ` Nick Piggin
2005-12-15 8:31 ` Al Boldi
2005-12-15 8:53 ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-15 9:24 ` Nick Piggin
[not found] ` <48526.10.10.10.28.1134639327.squirrel@linux1>
2005-12-15 9:35 ` Sean
2005-12-15 11:14 ` Helge Hafting
2005-12-15 18:29 ` Al Boldi
2005-12-15 19:01 ` Dmitry Torokhov
2005-12-15 19:06 ` Lee Revell
2005-12-15 19:09 ` Al Viro
2005-12-16 2:09 ` Nick Piggin
2005-12-19 10:57 ` Helge Hafting
2005-12-19 15:19 ` Al Boldi
2005-12-15 5:39 ` Kyle Moffett
2005-12-15 7:11 ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-15 9:11 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
[not found] <5jMcG-5mY-19@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <5jWON-3xQ-29@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <5jZk7-7iD-19@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <5k6bw-AI-19@gated-at.bofh.it>
2005-12-16 6:57 ` Bodo Eggert
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