From: Hui Su <sh_def@163.com>
To: Hui Su <sh_def@163.com>
Cc: K Prateek Nayak <kprateek.nayak@amd.com>,
Zhidao Su <soolaugust@gmail.com>,
John Stultz <jstultz@google.com>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>,
Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
Juri Lelli <juri.lelli@redhat.com>,
Vincent Guittot <vincent.guittot@linaro.org>,
Dietmar Eggemann <dietmar.eggemann@arm.com>,
Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
Ben Segall <bsegall@google.com>, Mel Gorman <mgorman@suse.de>,
Valentin Schneider <vschneid@redhat.com>,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 0/1] sched/proxy_exec: detect cycles without persistent walk state
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2026 00:51:19 +0900 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <77591907f579598e5cf293e2ac03682a.sh_def@163.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20260914165455.2126134-1-sh_def@163.com>
> The open design question is whether avoiding persistent task/rq state and its
> activation lifecycle is worth accepting the temporary blocked_donor cycle
> window in the single-pass Online Brent walk.
I did some follow-up validation of the unchanged Online Brent patch on
tip/sched/core at e81ee0630837.
One relevant change since the base used for the original measurements is:
772d9ffbfd26 ("sched: Migrate whole chain in proxy_migrate_task()")
proxy_migrate_task() now walks p->blocked_donor directly, so this seemed
like the most important current consumer against which to test the temporary
backlink cycle mentioned in the RFC.
I added validation-only, read-only instrumentation at
proxy_migrate_task() entry. It inspected the already-built backlink prefix
but did not repair, truncate, or otherwise change the production migration
path.
The validation on that tip revision included cross-CPU/multi-hop cycle cases, long
acyclic chains, repeated reuse of the same task/mutex objects, and KCSAN
runs. Some representative results were:
- an acyclic depth-1024 case completed 2921/2921 observed whole-chain
migrations, reaching a maximum backlink prefix of 1016 tasks;
- curr_in_chain/current-task protection was exercised 959 times in that
run, with no current task entering the migration prefix;
- the same task/mutex objects were reused for 100 rounds while affinity
changes forced remote-owner placement; 226/226 observed proxy migrations
completed;
- across the observed migration entries I saw no backlink cycle, duplicate
task, wrong-rq task, or off-rq task;
- the clean RFC kernel, without the observer, also completed the
representative cycle cases, and a clean KCSAN build completed a
tail-plus-cycle case and 100 repeated cycle/recovery rounds without a KCSAN
report or fatal scheduler diagnostic.
This does not prove every possible owner-change interleaving, but in the
tested paths I did not observe the temporary backlink cycle caused by delayed
Brent detection escaping into the current whole-chain blocked_donor
consumer.
The control-flow argument also looks consistent with those results: before a
remote-owner migration, find_proxy_task() has not installed the backlink for
that owner edge, so proxy_migrate_task() sees the finite prefix already
constructed from the current donor. Once a local backlink cycle can close,
those owners have already passed the same-rq validation while rq->lock is
held.
There is also a state-lifetime property of this approach that I think is
worth considering as PE evolves.
The Brent state:
checkpoint / power / span
belongs entirely to one find_proxy_task() invocation. In other words, the
lifetime of the cycle-detection state matches the lifetime of the owner walk
that consumes it. Task activation, migration, or later reactivation
therefore do not have to carry or reset detector state.
I have not tested this RFC on top of the sleeping-owner, rwsem, or futex
series; the point here is about the ownership and lifetime of the
cycle-detection state rather than a compatibility claim for those patches.
The same separation applies at the owner-resolution boundary. As long as a
blocking primitive exposes or resolves one dependency step to at most one
task owner, e.g.
mutex -----------\
rwsem writer -----+--> task owner
futex ------------/
the detector still only sees a task-to-task walk and does not need to know
which primitive supplied the edge.
So the useful property here is that lock-specific owner resolution,
task/rq lifecycle, and cycle-detection state remain separate.
There is also a clear limit to this abstraction: Brent assumes one successor
per step. If PE eventually models and traverses multiple rwsem readers as
dependency owners, the walk becomes a branching graph and cycle detection
would need to be reconsidered together with that traversal model.
The cost remains the one described in the RFC: detection can occur later
than the first repeated owner, and the walk can temporarily close a
blocked_donor cycle. The current-tip testing above was intended to exercise
that cost against the whole-chain blocked_donor consumer now present in
proxy_migrate_task().
The RFC implementation itself did not need any changes after this
validation, so I do not plan to respin it just for the additional test
results.
At this point, the main question I would appreciate feedback on is whether
this trade-off -- invocation-local detector state in exchange for delayed
detection and the transient backlink window -- is reasonable for this path.
Thanks,
Hui
prev parent reply other threads:[~2026-09-19 15:52 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 7+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2026-09-14 16:54 Hui Su
2026-09-14 16:54 ` [RFC PATCH 1/1] sched/proxy_exec: detect cycles in proxy walks Hui Su
2026-09-22 5:26 ` John Stultz
2026-09-22 5:48 ` K Prateek Nayak
2026-09-22 6:06 ` John Stultz
2026-09-22 7:18 ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-09-19 15:51 ` Hui Su [this message]
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