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From: James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@HansenPartnership.com>
To: "Luck, Tony" <tony.luck@intel.com>, Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>
Cc: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	"H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>, Mike Rapoport <rppt@kernel.org>,
	Laurent Pinchart <laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com>,
	Christian Brauner <brauner@kernel.org>,
	 Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@linux.intel.com>,
	Vlastimil Babka <vbabka@suse.cz>,
	 "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"workflows@vger.kernel.org" <workflows@vger.kernel.org>,
	"ksummit@lists.linux.dev" <ksummit@lists.linux.dev>,
	 "Williams, Dan J" <dan.j.williams@intel.com>,
	Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu>, Sasha Levin <sashal@kernel.org>,
	 Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>, Kees Cook <kees@kernel.org>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
	Miguel Ojeda <ojeda@kernel.org>, Shuah Khan <shuah@kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] [v2] Documentation: Provide guidelines for tool-generated content
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2025 17:07:58 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <9613a8a7b9fd77a48667a39ffde9e92b361c4fd1.camel@HansenPartnership.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <SJ1PR11MB6083B928B445DF82EE5AE3EEFCCEA@SJ1PR11MB6083.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

On Mon, 2025-11-10 at 21:52 +0000, Luck, Tony wrote:
> > I believe that's what is currently being argued in court. If AI is
> > trained on human content and prints out something based on it, is
> > it a non-human creation?

So far (Bartz v. Anthropic and Kadrey v. Meta) the decisions have been
that the output is transformative enough that that is, in fact, an
independent creation.

> >   This isn't a case of a monkey taking a selfie, where the
> > content provider is clearly non-human. This is a machine that uses
> > human created content to derive new creations.
> 
> If the output were deemed copyrightable, who should own that
> copyright?
> 
> Option 1 is "The human that crafted the prompt to generate it"

This is possible, but so far hasn't been argued.

> 
> Option 2 is "The corporation that spent vast resources to create that
> AI model"

This would require a change of law in the US to allow a non-human
content creator to hold copyright; absent that there's nothing
copyrightable the corporation can lay claim to (not that the AI
industry might not be motivated to seek this eventually if they have
trouble monetizing AI).

> Option 3 is "The owners of the copyrighted material used to train the
> AI".

This is the derivative of training argument which has so far failed.

Regards,

James


  reply	other threads:[~2025-11-10 22:08 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 42+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2025-11-05 23:15 Dave Hansen
2025-11-06 22:42 ` Shuah
2025-11-06 22:49   ` Dave Hansen
2025-11-07  3:40 ` Kees Cook
2025-11-07  8:47 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2025-11-07 10:58 ` Bagas Sanjaya
2025-11-08  0:11 ` dan.j.williams
2025-11-13 22:17   ` Dave Hansen
2025-11-08  1:52 ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-11-13 22:21   ` Dave Hansen
2025-11-10  7:43 ` Vlastimil Babka
2025-11-10  8:58   ` Christian Brauner
2025-11-10 16:08     ` Dave Hansen
2025-11-10 17:25     ` Laurent Pinchart
2025-11-10 17:41       ` Dave Hansen
2025-11-10 17:44       ` Linus Torvalds
2025-11-10 17:56         ` Luck, Tony
2025-11-10 18:39         ` Mike Rapoport
2025-11-10 19:05           ` Linus Torvalds
2025-11-10 19:18             ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-11-10 19:36               ` Linus Torvalds
2025-11-10 19:54                 ` Steven Rostedt
2025-11-10 20:00                   ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2025-11-10 20:25                     ` Steven Rostedt
2025-11-10 21:21                   ` James Bottomley
2025-11-10 21:42                     ` Steven Rostedt
2025-11-10 21:52                       ` Luck, Tony
2025-11-10 22:07                         ` James Bottomley [this message]
2025-11-10 23:16                   ` Theodore Ts'o
2025-11-11  9:35                 ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2025-11-11 13:08                   ` Theodore Ts'o
2025-11-10 17:46       ` Steven Rostedt
2025-11-10 10:48 ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2025-11-10 11:15   ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2025-11-10 15:19   ` Jonathan Corbet
2025-11-10 15:30     ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2025-11-10 15:44       ` Jonathan Corbet
2025-11-10 16:35   ` Dave Hansen
2025-11-10 16:51     ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2025-11-10 18:29   ` Steven Rostedt
2025-11-11 23:45 ` NeilBrown
2025-11-14  1:09   ` Dave Hansen

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