From: "Gary Guo" <gary@garyguo.net>
To: "Mathieu Desnoyers" <mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com>,
"Gary Guo" <gary@garyguo.net>,
"Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@kernel.org>, <rcu@vger.kernel.org>,
<linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Cc: <kernel-team@meta.com>, "Boqun Feng" <boqun@kernel.org>,
"Steven Rostedt" <rostedt@goodmis.org>, <lkmm@lists.linux.dev>,
"Zqiang" <qiang.zhang@linux.dev>,
"Wang Lian" <lianux.mm@gmail.com>,
"Kunwu Chan" <kunwu.chan@gmail.com>,
"Bradley Morgan" <brads@mainlining.org>,
"Bradley Morgan" <include@grrlz.net>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 26/28] hazptr: Implement two-phase wildcard scan
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2026 21:17:22 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <DLOOAGFS4DEX.2DZKMMS9RHD0X@garyguo.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <4da27ea8-6f1a-40a6-9be1-8bbd474d8367@efficios.com>
On Fri Sep 25, 2026 at 8:19 PM BST, Mathieu Desnoyers wrote:
> On 2026-09-20 11:57, Gary Guo wrote:
>> On Sun Sep 20, 2026 at 4:44 PM BST, Mathieu Desnoyers wrote:
>>>
>>> There is a straightforward optimization we can do if this happen to
>
>> Another option would be avoid using WILDCARD if possible. IIRC the wildcard is
>> used to ensure forward progress on the reader side, so it avoids the possibility
>> of READ_ONCE(*addr_p) changing before and after protecting.
>
> Using the wildcard has a few benefits:
>
> 1) Prevents this retry loop on the read-side.
>
> 2) Prevents comparison of a loaded pointer value against a re-load of
> that value, which causes issues with compiler optimizations (I did a
> ptr_eq() patch in a prior version of the hazard pointer patches to
> handle this).
FWIW, clang is getting better with understanding pointer provenance now (see
https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/issues/34577). There's still the case that
if one pointer being compared is a constant global or null, then the replacement
still happens, but it's not applicable for the hazptr case.
That said, this doesn't negate the need of having ptr_eq for GCC and old version
of Clang. I do agree that the need of ptr_eq is quite unfortunate.
>
> It does have a downside though: given a very long preemption by a host
> VM, the guest VM could technically keep a wildcard present for a long
> time in a per-cpu slot, which would prevent hazptr synchronize from
> progressing for a long time in the guest VM kernel.
>
>>
>> One option would be to first use the typical hazard pointer impl that read the
>> pointer twice, and when that fails, use the wildcard protection. This would mean
>> that in the common case where the hazptr_acquire does not race with a pointer
>> update, the WILDCARD protection is not used at all.
>
> So your idea is to use the hazptr load+reload approach (with ptr_eq()
> check preventing the compiler from removing the dependency on the
> second load), but rather than retry, fallback to the two-phases
> wildcard. This way, we get the best of both worlds: guaranteed
> progress for the read-side (with the wildcard fallback), and typically
> we are immune to long-host-VM preemption delays, because the
> wildcard fallback would almost never fire.
Correct.
Perhaps we can take the idea further: what if the fallback path always insert
into backup list? As the backup list uses already uses two lists to ensure
forward progress, we only need a single WILDCARD?
Best,
Gary
>
> I like it. What do you guys think ?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mathieu
>
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2026-09-25 20:17 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 53+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2026-09-18 23:59 [PATCH RFC v3 0/28] Simple hazard-pointer implementation and torture tests Paul E. McKenney
2026-09-19 0:00 ` [PATCH 01/28] hazptr: Implement Hazard Pointers Paul E. McKenney
2026-09-19 11:12 ` Bradley Morgan
2026-09-19 16:30 ` Linus Torvalds
2026-09-19 16:34 ` Bradley Morgan
2026-09-19 17:00 ` Linus Torvalds
2026-09-19 17:09 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2026-09-19 18:09 ` Boqun Feng
2026-09-19 17:19 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2026-09-19 18:18 ` Paul E. McKenney
2026-09-19 23:58 ` Bradley Morgan
2026-09-19 16:41 ` Bradley Morgan
2026-09-19 17:56 ` Paul E. McKenney
2026-09-19 0:00 ` [PATCH 02/28] hazptr: Add refscale test Paul E. McKenney
2026-09-19 0:00 ` [PATCH 03/28] torture: Add a hazptrtorture.c torture test Paul E. McKenney
2026-09-19 0:00 ` [PATCH 04/28] hazptrtorture: Add testing of on-stack hazptr_ctx structures Paul E. McKenney
2026-09-19 0:00 ` [PATCH 05/28] hazptrtorture: Add microsecond-scale sleep in readers Paul E. McKenney
2026-09-19 0:00 ` [PATCH 06/28] hazptrtorture: Enable system-independent CPU overcommit Paul E. McKenney
2026-09-19 0:00 ` [PATCH 07/28] torture: Add a stutter_will_wait() function Paul E. McKenney
2026-09-19 0:00 ` [PATCH 08/28] hazptrtorture: Use mnemonic local variables for context information Paul E. McKenney
2026-09-19 0:00 ` [PATCH 09/28] hazptrtorture: Split hazptr_torture_reader_tail() from hazptr_torture_reader() Paul E. McKenney
2026-09-19 0:00 ` [PATCH 10/28] hazptrtorture: Add kthread to release deferred hazard pointers Paul E. McKenney
2026-09-19 0:00 ` [PATCH 11/28] hazptrtorture: Defer release of " Paul E. McKenney
2026-09-19 0:00 ` [PATCH 12/28] hazptrtorture: Add irq_acquire to acquire hazptr from irq Paul E. McKenney
2026-09-19 0:00 ` [PATCH 13/28] hazptrtorture: Use task_state_to_char() for task-state reporting Paul E. McKenney
2026-09-19 0:00 ` [PATCH 14/28] hazptrtorture: Pass hazptr_pending to hazptr_torture_reader_tail() Paul E. McKenney
2026-09-19 0:00 ` [PATCH 15/28] hazptrtorture: Add the ability to disable the writer kthread Paul E. McKenney
2026-09-19 0:00 ` [PATCH 16/28] hazptrtorture: Add irq_release to release hazptr from irq Paul E. McKenney
2026-09-19 0:00 ` [PATCH 17/28] hazptrtorture: Accumulate operation statistics Paul E. McKenney
2026-09-19 0:00 ` [PATCH 18/28] doc: Add hazptrtorture module parameters Paul E. McKenney
2026-09-19 0:00 ` [PATCH 19/28] hazptr: Permit detaching hazard pointers from contexts Paul E. McKenney
2026-09-19 11:42 ` Boqun Feng
2026-09-19 11:43 ` Boqun Feng
2026-09-19 0:00 ` [PATCH 20/28] hazptrtorture: Detach deferred and IPIed hazard pointers Paul E. McKenney
2026-09-19 0:00 ` [PATCH 21/28] hazptr: Introduce CONFIG_HAZPTR_DEBUG misuse detection Paul E. McKenney
2026-09-19 0:00 ` [PATCH 22/28] hazptrtorture: Fix hazptr ownership issue Paul E. McKenney
2026-09-19 0:00 ` [PATCH 23/28] hazptrtorture: Enable CONFIG_HAZPTR_DEBUG Paul E. McKenney
2026-09-19 0:00 ` [PATCH 24/28] hazptr: Upgrade kernel-doc headers Paul E. McKenney
2026-09-19 0:00 ` [PATCH 25/28] hazptrtorture: Fix inverted sleep condition in do_pending kthread Paul E. McKenney
2026-09-19 0:00 ` [PATCH 26/28] hazptr: Implement two-phase wildcard scan Paul E. McKenney
2026-09-19 13:28 ` Boqun Feng
2026-09-20 12:46 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2026-09-20 15:55 ` Boqun Feng
2026-09-25 19:08 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2026-09-20 14:46 ` Gary Guo
2026-09-20 15:44 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2026-09-20 15:57 ` Gary Guo
2026-09-25 19:19 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2026-09-25 20:17 ` Gary Guo [this message]
2026-09-25 20:18 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2026-09-19 0:00 ` [PATCH 27/28] hazptr: handle NULL address in hazptr_detach Paul E. McKenney
2026-09-19 0:00 ` [PATCH 28/28] torture.sh: Add hazptr torturing Paul E. McKenney
2026-09-19 11:18 ` Bradley Morgan
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