From: "David Schwartz" <davids@webmaster.com>
To: "Larry McVoy" <lm@bitmover.com>
Cc: "Linux Kernel" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: RE: BK kernel workflow
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 17:20:17 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <MDEHLPKNGKAHNMBLJOLKMEOOPGAA.davids@webmaster.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20041030233532.GA24640@work.bitmover.com>
> Indeed. Kyle's comments were clearly without basis in fact. Saying
> that you aren't bound by the terms of the license because you didn't
> download the code, your co-worker did, is no different than saying "hey,
> look at this! A copy of the Linux kernel! Now how did that get here?
> Well, I didn't put it here so I think I'll ignore the terms of the GPL."
> Best of luck on that logic.
No, these are in no way comparable. The big difference between copyright
and contract is that I don't have to agree to give you copyright rights.
Your analogy blurs this *major* distinction. The problem with having a
co-worker agree to the license is it's not clear how you would get the right
(under copyright) to use the software.
The big questions, IMO, are:
1) Will courts really uphold click-wrap agreements in contradiction to
first sale, and
2) Will courts really uphold the DMCA in defense of rights obtained by
contract, not copyright.
My opinion is this:
Yes on the first question. They will. Largely because they 'first sale'
only seems to apply when you own something, and if software is leased or
licensed to you, you don't own anything. I think this is a bad
interpretation of copyright law, but I think courts will run with this. This
effectively guts all rights to fair use or first sale for at least computer
software. If someone can say "you must yield your fair use rights to obtain
any right to use this software", then there effectively is no right to fair
use at all. (One wonders if you can do the same thing with books and CDs.)
No on the second question. The current case that suggests this is, I hope,
an aberration. The DMCA is a very powerful right that should be subject to
the same restrictions other Federal copyright rights are subject to. It
should not be expanded to defend rights obtained by contract and not
recognized under contract law.
I want to take one minute to thank Larry for the efforts he has put forward
to help the Linux kernel project and, specifically, for the effort has has
put to make Linus' life easier and more productive. We all benefit from
this. Yes, Larry benefits too, but many kernel developers also benefit from
the work they do. It would be a strange twist if we expected people to work
on GPL'd projects to their personal detriment.
DS
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2004-10-31 0:21 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 161+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <41752E53.8060103@pobox.com>
[not found] ` <20041019153126.GG18939@work.bitmover.com>
2004-10-19 16:06 ` Jeff Garzik
2004-10-19 21:33 ` Paolo Ciarrocchi
2004-10-19 21:38 ` Jeff Garzik
2004-10-19 21:54 ` Paolo Ciarrocchi
2004-10-19 22:11 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-10-20 7:35 ` Paolo Ciarrocchi
2004-10-23 16:12 ` Larry McVoy
2004-10-24 10:24 ` Paolo Ciarrocchi
2004-10-24 14:44 ` Larry McVoy
2004-10-24 16:44 ` Paolo Ciarrocchi
2004-10-24 23:32 ` Larry McVoy
2004-10-25 11:33 ` Matthias Urlichs
2004-10-25 11:46 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2004-10-25 12:29 ` Joe Perches
2004-10-25 13:39 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2004-10-25 15:14 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-10-25 15:43 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2004-10-25 16:10 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-10-25 17:22 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2004-10-25 20:04 ` Jeff Garzik
2004-10-26 2:19 ` Miles Bader
2004-10-25 16:20 ` Larry McVoy
2004-10-25 16:47 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2004-10-25 17:12 ` Larry McVoy
2004-10-25 17:34 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2004-10-25 17:18 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-10-25 17:37 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2004-10-26 0:06 ` Roman Zippel
2004-10-26 0:51 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-10-26 2:21 ` Miles Bader
2004-10-27 2:05 ` Roman Zippel
2004-10-27 3:00 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-10-27 4:18 ` Larry McVoy
2004-10-27 16:45 ` Matthias Urlichs
2004-10-27 18:12 ` Buddy Lucas
2004-10-27 20:56 ` Roman Zippel
2004-10-27 21:20 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-10-28 1:14 ` Roman Zippel
2004-10-28 1:34 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-10-27 21:45 ` Alan Cox
2004-10-31 19:50 ` Pavel Machek
2004-10-28 9:20 ` James Bruce
2004-10-28 11:39 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2004-10-28 13:53 ` Larry McVoy
2004-10-28 14:06 ` Xavier Bestel
2004-10-28 15:10 ` Larry McVoy
2004-10-28 19:20 ` Alan Cox
2004-10-28 19:25 ` David Schwartz
2004-10-28 19:38 ` Kevin P. Fleming
2004-10-28 19:22 ` Alan Cox
2004-10-28 23:22 ` David Schwartz
2004-10-28 23:59 ` David S. Miller
2004-10-29 0:25 ` David Schwartz
2004-10-29 14:31 ` Scott Lockwood
2004-10-29 14:35 ` Xavier Bestel
2004-10-29 17:02 ` The requested ruling (Was: BK kernel workflow) Scott Lockwood
2004-10-30 2:08 ` David Schwartz
2004-10-28 19:59 ` BK kernel workflow Adrian Bunk
2004-10-28 21:35 ` Larry McVoy
2004-10-30 6:51 ` Adrian Bunk
2004-10-30 23:46 ` Larry McVoy
2004-10-30 23:05 ` Alan Cox
2004-10-31 17:47 ` Larry McVoy
2004-10-31 0:28 ` Robert Love
2004-10-31 1:11 ` Adrian Bunk
2004-10-29 17:19 ` Ramón Rey Vicente
2004-10-29 17:36 ` Larry McVoy
2004-10-29 18:06 ` Stephen Frost
2004-10-29 18:20 ` Larry McVoy
2004-10-29 18:08 ` Ramón Rey Vicente
2004-10-29 18:21 ` Larry McVoy
2004-10-29 18:33 ` Scott Lockwood
2004-10-29 18:55 ` Ramón Rey Vicente
2004-10-29 19:14 ` Scott Lockwood
2004-10-30 5:04 ` Kyle Moffett
2004-10-30 20:42 ` Scott Lockwood
2004-10-30 23:35 ` Larry McVoy
2004-10-31 0:20 ` David Schwartz [this message]
2004-10-31 2:37 ` Kyle Moffett
2004-10-31 3:34 ` Larry McVoy
2004-10-31 4:01 ` Kyle Moffett
2004-10-31 4:39 ` Larry McVoy
2004-10-31 2:44 ` Kyle Moffett
2004-10-29 19:39 ` Larry McVoy
2004-10-29 20:33 ` Stephen Frost
2004-10-29 23:38 ` Ramón Rey Vicente
2004-10-29 21:11 ` Adrian Bunk
2004-10-30 2:39 ` Larry McVoy
2004-10-30 2:02 ` Al Viro
2004-10-29 19:13 ` Ramón Rey Vicente
[not found] ` <45898.65.208.227.246.1099077395.squirrel@www.lrsehosting.com>
2004-10-29 19:26 ` Ramón Rey Vicente
2004-10-29 23:01 ` Tim Hockin
2004-10-29 20:32 ` Roman Zippel
2004-10-29 22:41 ` Larry McVoy
2004-10-30 11:38 ` Roman Zippel
2004-10-31 21:03 ` Pavel Machek
2004-10-31 21:14 ` Larry McVoy
2004-10-31 21:21 ` Pavel Machek
2004-10-31 21:35 ` Larry McVoy
2004-10-31 21:46 ` Pavel Machek
2004-10-31 23:44 ` Larry McVoy
2004-11-01 3:16 ` Kyle Moffett
2004-11-01 4:57 ` Larry McVoy
2004-11-01 8:39 ` Pavel Machek
2004-10-26 1:01 ` Larry McVoy
2004-10-27 2:30 ` Roman Zippel
2004-10-27 3:54 ` Larry McVoy
2004-10-27 20:58 ` Roman Zippel
2004-10-27 21:16 ` Joe Perches
2004-10-28 0:54 ` Larry McVoy
2004-10-28 1:49 ` Roman Zippel
2004-10-28 2:35 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-10-28 3:09 ` Larry McVoy
2004-10-28 21:03 ` Roman Zippel
2004-10-28 21:39 ` Eric Mudama
2004-10-28 22:45 ` Larry McVoy
2004-10-28 22:54 ` Roman Zippel
2004-10-29 8:09 ` Manu Abraham
2004-10-29 14:28 ` Scott Lockwood
2004-10-29 15:49 ` Roman Zippel
2004-10-29 16:41 ` David Schwartz
2004-10-29 17:20 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2004-10-30 0:41 ` David Schwartz
2004-10-29 19:03 ` Chris Friesen
2004-10-29 20:00 ` Ryan Anderson
2004-10-30 0:41 ` David Schwartz
2004-10-31 20:47 ` Pavel Machek
2004-10-31 20:53 ` Larry McVoy
2004-10-31 22:07 ` Sam Ravnborg
2004-10-28 1:05 ` Theodore Ts'o
[not found] ` <mailman.1098759000.989.linux-kernel2news@redhat.com>
2004-10-30 3:55 ` Pete Zaitcev
2004-10-25 19:51 ` Matthias Urlichs
2004-10-26 0:58 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2004-10-26 2:23 ` Miles Bader
2004-10-25 18:18 ` Jon Smirl
2004-10-25 23:01 ` Larry McVoy
2004-10-26 1:28 ` Chris Wedgwood
2004-10-26 2:26 ` Jon Smirl
2004-10-26 6:57 ` Matthias Urlichs
2004-10-26 13:09 ` Giuseppe Bilotta
2004-10-24 17:44 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-10-24 17:48 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-10-24 18:39 ` Michael Buesch
2004-10-26 7:32 ` Matthias Urlichs
2004-10-24 22:33 ` Roman Zippel
2004-10-24 23:04 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-10-19 23:27 ` Greg KH
2004-10-25 13:01 ` Matthias Urlichs
2004-10-25 14:39 ` Paolo Ciarrocchi
2004-10-25 15:48 ` Jeff Garzik
2004-10-25 16:35 ` Matthias Urlichs
2004-10-25 22:05 ` Andrew Morton
2004-10-20 8:31 ` maximilian attems
2004-10-20 9:05 ` Jeff Garzik
2004-10-26 7:38 Chuck Ebbert
2004-10-26 14:23 ` Larry McVoy
2004-10-26 18:16 ` Ryan Anderson
2004-10-26 19:22 ` Larry McVoy
2004-10-26 15:54 Chuck Ebbert
2004-10-26 20:47 ` Larry McVoy
[not found] <fa.gikv4k0.1tk6shk@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.d7r9f2v.1i6a6on@ifi.uio.no>
2004-10-30 20:54 ` walt
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=MDEHLPKNGKAHNMBLJOLKMEOOPGAA.davids@webmaster.com \
--to=davids@webmaster.com \
--cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=lm@bitmover.com \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox
all inboxes | Powered by JetHome®