Re: PS2 keyboard & mice mandatory again ?

Re: PS2 keyboard & mice mandatory again ?

[Frédéric L. W. Meunier]

Nicolas Mailhot wrote:

> Please revert this change.

Agreed.

But it was much worse when someone removed CONFIG_NETLINK in
some 2.4 release (mainly ?) because Red Hat had a dependency
for it in some init script and people were complaining.

-- 
How to contact me - http://www.pervalidus.net/contact.html

PS2 keyboard & mice mandatory again ?

[Nicolas Mailhot]

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Hi,

	I've just had the unpleasant surprise to find out that in the latest
2.6 snapshots

CONFIG_SERIO=y
CONFIG_SERIO_I8042=y

is forced on everyone. I know the modularization of 8042 has generated a
lot of bug reports, but couldn't people just fix the damn option name
and description instead of making it mandatory ?

There are already a lot of people  (me included) with a 100% usb input
setup. More are on the way (really a nice hub on the desk instead of
crawling under it to reach PS/2 ports is a no-brainer once you've tested
it). Please revert this change. 

Cheers,

-- 
Nicolas Mailhot

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Re: PS2 keyboard & mice mandatory again ?

[Vojtech Pavlik]

On Wed, Sep 24, 2003 at 08:32:54PM +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> 	I've just had the unpleasant surprise to find out that in the latest
> 2.6 snapshots
> 
> CONFIG_SERIO=y
> CONFIG_SERIO_I8042=y
> 
> is forced on everyone. I know the modularization of 8042 has generated a
> lot of bug reports, but couldn't people just fix the damn option name
> and description instead of making it mandatory ?
> 
> There are already a lot of people  (me included) with a 100% usb input
> setup. More are on the way (really a nice hub on the desk instead of
> crawling under it to reach PS/2 ports is a no-brainer once you've tested
> it). Please revert this change. 

If you enable CONFIG_EMBEDDED, you can switch it off.

-- 
Vojtech Pavlik
SuSE Labs, SuSE CR

Re: PS2 keyboard & mice mandatory again ?

[Nicolas Mailhot]

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Le jeu 25/09/2003 à 09:46, Vojtech Pavlik a écrit :
> On Wed, Sep 24, 2003 at 08:32:54PM +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > 	I've just had the unpleasant surprise to find out that in the latest
> > 2.6 snapshots
> > 
> > CONFIG_SERIO=y
> > CONFIG_SERIO_I8042=y
> > 
> > is forced on everyone. I know the modularization of 8042 has generated a
> > lot of bug reports, but couldn't people just fix the damn option name
> > and description instead of making it mandatory ?
> > 
> > There are already a lot of people  (me included) with a 100% usb input
> > setup. More are on the way (really a nice hub on the desk instead of
> > crawling under it to reach PS/2 ports is a no-brainer once you've tested
> > it). Please revert this change. 
> 
> If you enable CONFIG_EMBEDDED, you can switch it off.

Great, now a standard mass-market computer is an embedded device. I can
(and will) certainly do it, but this looks like a ticking bomb to me.
More than half the original problems where the option was labelled
CONFIG_SERIO_I8042 instead of something user-understandable like PS/2
input, and it's just been replaced by another mess that will make no
sense to the average user. There's even no notice in the input menu to
where this was moved :(

Anyway, thanks for the tip. I hope for you I'm the first and last to ask
you about this.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Mailhot

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Re: PS2 keyboard & mice mandatory again ?

[Adrian Bunk]

On Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 10:11:45AM +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> 
> Great, now a standard mass-market computer is an embedded device. I can
> (and will) certainly do it, but this looks like a ticking bomb to me.
>...

What does it cost if an unneeded driver is included in your kernel? 
Perhaps a few kB?

On a standard mass-market computer with 256 MB of RAM where the user 
uses Mozilla under KDE this is quite irrelevant.

EMBEDDED is for people that really have to count every kB to put a 
kernel onto a small floppy/flash/computer with limited RAM.

> Regards,
> Nicolas Mailhot

cu
Adrian

-- 

       "Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
        of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
       "Only a promise," Lao Er said.
                                       Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed

RE: PS2 keyboard & mice mandatory again ?

[Ron Verhees]

Personally I never got the point for including something that you won't
need anyway. True you can say that it doesn't hurt anyone on the
computers nowadays but is there any specific reason for not having it
mandatory (eg. Fixing it)?

Regards,
Ron

-----Original Message-----
From: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org
[mailto:linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Bunk
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 1:16 PM
To: Nicolas Mailhot
Cc: Vojtech Pavlik; linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: PS2 keyboard & mice mandatory again ?

On Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 10:11:45AM +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> 
> Great, now a standard mass-market computer is an embedded device. I
can
> (and will) certainly do it, but this looks like a ticking bomb to me.
>...

What does it cost if an unneeded driver is included in your kernel? 
Perhaps a few kB?

On a standard mass-market computer with 256 MB of RAM where the user 
uses Mozilla under KDE this is quite irrelevant.

EMBEDDED is for people that really have to count every kB to put a 
kernel onto a small floppy/flash/computer with limited RAM.

> Regards,
> Nicolas Mailhot

cu
Adrian

-- 

       "Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
        of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
       "Only a promise," Lao Er said.
                                       Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed

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Re: PS2 keyboard & mice mandatory again ?

[Nicolas Mailhot]

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Le jeu 25/09/2003 à 13:15, Adrian Bunk a écrit :
> On Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 10:11:45AM +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> > 
> > Great, now a standard mass-market computer is an embedded device. I can
> > (and will) certainly do it, but this looks like a ticking bomb to me.
> >...
> 
> What does it cost if an unneeded driver is included in your kernel? 
> Perhaps a few kB?

And all the bugs of the unneeded driver.
I didn't notice this because I have the habit to run diff between my old
and new config. I noticed it because on 2.6.0-test-bk9 or 10 I had my
boot logs full of warnings associated to PS/2 input.

The less things I have to worry about the better I sleep. That's why I
only build EHCI on my kernel and plug all USB1 devices in an external
USB2 hub.

The next "obvious" step is to make serial, parallel, floppy, ide and
vesa drivers mandatory since most people have this kind of harware. How
would _you_ like that ?

Cheers,

-- 
Nicolas Mailhot

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Re: PS2 keyboard & mice mandatory again ?

[Stuart Longland]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
| Le jeu 25/09/2003 à 13:15, Adrian Bunk a écrit :
|
|>On Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 10:11:45AM +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
|>
|>>Great, now a standard mass-market computer is an embedded device. I can
|>>(and will) certainly do it, but this looks like a ticking bomb to me.
|>>...
|>
|>What does it cost if an unneeded driver is included in your kernel?
|>Perhaps a few kB?
|
|
| And all the bugs of the unneeded driver.
| I didn't notice this because I have the habit to run diff between my old
| and new config. I noticed it because on 2.6.0-test-bk9 or 10 I had my
| boot logs full of warnings associated to PS/2 input.
|

I presonally would like to be able to choose if I want to use the PS/2
driver or not.  Mainly because a couple of machines I have here, use the
old AT keyboard (DIN-5 connection, not PS/2 or USB), and have <128MB
RAM.  For instance, how many 386 computers have you seen with at least
32MB RAM & PS/2 or USB sockets? [1]

(And yes, I probably would be crazy enough to go put Linux 2.6 on to a
386, I've considered installing Gentoo on one actually -- just to see
how long it takes :-D)

Footnotes:
1. I've only seen one exception to this, that is one old (also dead)
Olivetti 386 laptop which had PS/2 keyboard & mouse sockets.

- --
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
| Stuart Longland           stuartl at longlandclan.hopto.org |
| Brisbane Mesh Node: 719             http://stuartl.cjb.net/ |
| I haven't lost my mind - it's backed up on a tape somewhere |
| Griffith Student No:           Course: Bachelor/IT (Nathan) |
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Re: PS2 keyboard & mice mandatory again ?

[Vojtech Pavlik]

On Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 11:47:34PM +1000, Stuart Longland wrote:

> I presonally would like to be able to choose if I want to use the PS/2
> driver or not.  Mainly because a couple of machines I have here, use the
> old AT keyboard (DIN-5 connection, not PS/2 or USB), and have <128MB
> RAM.  For instance, how many 386 computers have you seen with at least
> 32MB RAM & PS/2 or USB sockets? [1]

Surprisingly enough, there is no difference between DIN-5 (aka Extended
AT) and MiniDIN-6 (aka PS/2) keyboards except for the connector shape.

So you'll need the driver even on your i386's. You can drop the mouse
driver there, though.

> (And yes, I probably would be crazy enough to go put Linux 2.6 on to a
> 386, I've considered installing Gentoo on one actually -- just to see
> how long it takes :-D)
> 
> Footnotes:
> 1. I've only seen one exception to this, that is one old (also dead)
> Olivetti 386 laptop which had PS/2 keyboard & mouse sockets.

-- 
Vojtech Pavlik
SuSE Labs, SuSE CR