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From: "Ilya Gladyshev" <ilya.gladyshev@linux.dev>
To: "Zi Yan" <ziy@nvidia.com>,
	"Linus Torvalds" <torvalds@linuxfoundation.org>,
	"David Hildenbrand  (Arm)" <david@kernel.org>
Cc: akpm@linux-foundation.org, andrew+netdev@lunn.ch,
	apopple@nvidia.com, artem.kuzin@huawei.com,
	baolin.wang@linux.alibaba.com, Liam.Howlett@oracle.com,
	edumazet@google.com, harry.yoo@oracle.com,
	hramamurthy@google.com, ivgorbunov@me.com, joshwash@google.com,
	kirill@shutemov.name, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-mm@kvack.org, lorenzo.stoakes@oracle.com, mhocko@suse.com,
	muchun.song@linux.dev, pfalcato@suse.de, rppt@kernel.org,
	surenb@google.com, vbabka@suse.cz, willy@infradead.org,
	yuzhao@google.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH v6 3/3] mm: implement page refcount locking via dedicated bit
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2026 07:03:12 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <a1d5881926dbf4b16dc796fb1da939f32dd42f18@linux.dev> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <DLO1WIACYFWF.3N01DXYFJLMD0@nvidia.com>

September 25, 2026 at 5:44 AM, Zi Yan wrote:
> 
> On Thu Sep 24, 2026 at 4:06 PM EDT, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> 
> > 
> > On Thu, 24 Sept 2026 at 11:52, David Hildenbrand (Arm) <david@kernel.org> wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > There needs to be a common page freeing function that dipatches stuff.
> > > 
> >  I think this all needs to be entirely generic to all pages. Agreed.
> >  Everybody needs to do it right.
> > 
> It assumes all callers of page_ref_dec_and_test() are free page
> functions, but there are two exceptions:
> 
> 1. compaction_free() uses folio_put_testzero(), which calls
> page_ref_dec_and_test() to put not used migration dst page back to
> isolated freelist instead of freeing them.
> 
> 2. virtio_mem_fake_offline_going_offline() drops the last reference of
> fake-offline pages, so that they can be offline.
> 
> They will need to be converted to not use page_ref_dec_and_test() in
> addition to a common page freeing function. And any such future use
> needs to be banned.
> 
> > 
> > But I think that in the scenario that Ilya mentioned:
> > 
> >  Refcount operations as follows (FR = FROZEN):
> > 
> >  A: DEC 1 -> 0 [ page_ref_dec_and_test() ]
> >  B: INC 0 -> 1 [ folio_try_get() ] => success
> >  B: DEC 1 -> 0 [ page_ref_dec_and_test() ]
> >  B: CAS 0 -> FR [ page_ref_dec_and_test() ]
> >  B: * deallocates via __folio_put() *
> > 
> >  C: * re-allocates page *
> >  C: DEC 1 -> 0 [ page_ref_dec_and_test() ]
> >  A: CAS 0 -> FR [ page_ref_dec_and_test() ] => success
> >  A: * deallocates directly via free_frozen_pages() * => BUG
> > 
> >  the big here is that the de-allocation was done not from the state of
> >  the *page*, but from the state of who finished it off.
> > 
> >  So that
> > 
> >  A: CAS 0 -> FR [ page_ref_dec_and_test() ] => success
> > 
> >  is not a problem per se. It's a fine case of "we had one single unique
> >  final free".
> > 
> >  The failure is that A then goes on to do that
> > 
> >  "deallocates directly via free_frozen_pages"
> > 
> >  because A mis-judged the page as having the old stale state that it
> >  had when *A* was using it.
> > 
> >  IOW, I think the soluition is either:
> > 
> >  (a) every user of put_page_testzero(page) agrees tro do exactly the
> >  same thing and there is no difference between how that final
> >  "0->FROZEN" is dealt with, so it doesn't matter that A is freeing a
> >  page that C allocated for something else
> > 
> >  or
> > 
> >  (b) the CAS 0 -> FR state sequence always looks at the *page* to
> >  decide what to do, never at the caller state (ie A will look at
> >  whatever C wrote when it allocated the page to know how to do that
> >  final free).
> > 
> >  Hmm?
> > 
> Just wonder if we could make 1 -> FROZEN atomic to get rid of the gap.

Hmmm, I’m afraid that since you need CAS for a safe 1->FR transition,
it will result in a CAS loop for the decrement itself (like in
atomic_sub_unless). And this will introduce scalability issues just like
in folio_try_get(), but this time for everyone...

Unless there is a way to change the refcount encoding even further and
fix this gap.

---
Ilya Gladyshev // foxido.dev

  reply	other threads:[~2026-09-25  7:03 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 16+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2026-09-12 19:50 [PATCH v6 0/3] mm: improve folio refcount scalability Ilya Gladyshev
2026-09-12 19:50 ` [PATCH v6 1/3] gve: reduce pagecnt_bias to USHRT_MAX Ilya Gladyshev
2026-09-12 19:50 ` [PATCH v6 2/3] mm: drop page refcount zero state semantics Ilya Gladyshev
2026-09-14  9:13   ` Kiryl Shutsemau
2026-09-12 19:50 ` [PATCH v6 3/3] mm: implement page refcount locking via dedicated bit Ilya Gladyshev
2026-09-14 10:39   ` Kiryl Shutsemau
2026-09-15  2:42   ` Zi Yan
2026-09-23 17:34     ` Ilya Gladyshev
2026-09-24 18:51       ` David Hildenbrand (Arm)
2026-09-24 20:06         ` Linus Torvalds
2026-09-25  2:44           ` Zi Yan
2026-09-25  7:03             ` Ilya Gladyshev [this message]
2026-09-25  7:06               ` David Hildenbrand (Arm)
2026-09-25  7:15             ` David Hildenbrand (Arm)
2026-09-14  0:06 ` [PATCH v6 0/3] mm: improve folio refcount scalability Andrew Morton
2026-09-14  8:10   ` Ilya Gladyshev

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