From: "Michael K. Edwards" <medwards.linux@gmail.com>
To: "Ingo Molnar" <mingo@elte.hu>
Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
"Linus Torvalds" <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
"Arjan van de Ven" <arjan@infradead.org>,
"Christoph Hellwig" <hch@infradead.org>,
"Andrew Morton" <akpm@zip.com.au>,
"Alan Cox" <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
"Ulrich Drepper" <drepper@redhat.com>,
"Zach Brown" <zach.brown@oracle.com>,
"Evgeniy Polyakov" <johnpol@2ka.mipt.ru>,
"David S. Miller" <davem@davemloft.net>,
"Suparna Bhattacharya" <suparna@in.ibm.com>,
"Davide Libenzi" <davidel@xmailserver.org>,
"Jens Axboe" <jens.axboe@oracle.com>,
"Thomas Gleixner" <tglx@linutronix.de>
Subject: Re: [patch 00/13] Syslets, "Threadlets", generic AIO support, v3
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 17:33:05 -0800 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <f2b55d220702211733l336a5bc9r10e69abc4f0afca6@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <f2b55d220702211653x69718ef4o2dd62ed3156465b0@mail.gmail.com>
On 2/21/07, Michael K. Edwards <medwards.linux@gmail.com> wrote:
> You won't be able to do it later if you don't design for it now.
> Don't reinvent the square wheel -- there's a model to follow that was
> so successful that it has killed all alternate models in its sphere.
> Namely, IEEE 754. But please try not to make pipeline flushes suck as
> much as they did on the i860.
To understand why I harp on IEEE 754 as a sane model for pipelined
AIO, you might consider reading (at least parts of):
http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~wkahan/JAVAhurt.pdf
People who write industrial-strength floating point programs rely on
the IEEE floating point semantics to avoid having to check every
result of every arithmetic step to see whether it is a valid input to
the next step. NaNs and +/-0 and overflows and all that jazz are
essential to efficient coding of things like matrix inversion, because
the only alternative is simply to fail. But in-line indications of an
exceptional result aren't enough, because it may or may not have been
a coding error, and you may need fine-grained control over which
"failure conditions" are within the realm of the expected and which
are not.
Here's a quotable bit from Kahan and Darcy's polemic:
<quote>
To achieve Floating-Point Predictability:
Limit programmers' choices to what is reasonable and necessary as
well as parsimonious, and
Limit language implementors'choices so as always to honor the
programmer's choices.
To do so, language designers must understand floating-point well
enough to validate their determination of "what is reasonable and
necessary," or else must entrust that determination to someone else
with the necessary competency.
</quote>
Now I ain't that "someone else", when it comes to AIO pipelining. But
they're out there. Figure out how to create an AIO model that honors
the RDBMS programmer's choices efficiently on a NUMA box without
making him understand NUMA, and you really will have created something
for the ages.
Cheers,
- Michael
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2007-02-22 1:33 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 353+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2007-02-21 21:13 Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:14 ` [patch 01/13] syslets: add async.h include file, kernel-side API definitions Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:15 ` [patch 02/13] syslets: add syslet.h include file, user API/ABI definitions Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:15 ` [patch 03/13] syslets: generic kernel bits Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:15 ` [patch 04/13] syslets: core code Ingo Molnar
2007-02-23 23:08 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-24 7:04 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-24 21:10 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-24 22:08 ` Kyle Moffett
2007-02-24 22:25 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-25 7:59 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:15 ` [patch 05/13] syslets: core, documentation Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 21:32 ` Randy Dunlap
2007-02-27 6:20 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:15 ` [patch 06/13] x86: split FPU state from task state Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:15 ` [patch 07/13] syslets: x86, add create_async_thread() method Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:15 ` [patch 08/13] syslets: x86, add move_user_context() method Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 23:03 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-21 23:20 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 4:10 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-21 21:15 ` [patch 09/13] syslets: x86, mark async unsafe syscalls Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:15 ` [patch 10/13] syslets: x86: enable ASYNC_SUPPORT Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:15 ` [patch 11/13] syslets: x86, wire up the syslet system calls Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:15 ` [patch 12/13] syslets: x86: optimized copy_uatom() Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:16 ` [patch 13/13] syslets: x86: optimized sys_umem_add() Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 22:46 ` [patch 00/13] Syslets, "Threadlets", generic AIO support, v3 Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-21 22:57 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 0:53 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22 1:33 ` Michael K. Edwards [this message]
2007-02-22 6:51 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 8:59 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22 19:52 ` x86 hardware and transputers (Re: [patch 00/13] Syslets, "Threadlets", generic AIO support, v3) Oleg Verych
2007-02-22 20:45 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-21 23:03 ` [patch 00/13] Syslets, "Threadlets", generic AIO support, v3 Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 23:24 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 0:55 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-21 23:31 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 23:46 ` Ulrich Drepper
2007-02-22 7:40 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 11:31 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-22 11:52 ` Arjan van de Ven
2007-02-22 12:39 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-22 13:41 ` David Miller
2007-02-22 14:31 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 14:47 ` David Miller
2007-02-22 15:02 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-22 15:15 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 15:29 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 17:17 ` David Miller
2007-02-23 11:12 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 20:13 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-22 21:30 ` Zach Brown
2007-02-22 14:59 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 21:42 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22 14:53 ` Avi Kivity
2007-02-22 12:59 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 13:32 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-22 19:46 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-23 12:15 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-23 17:43 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-23 18:01 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-23 20:43 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-23 11:51 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-23 12:22 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-23 12:41 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-25 17:45 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-25 18:09 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-25 19:04 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-25 19:42 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-25 20:38 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 12:39 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 14:05 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 14:15 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 16:55 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 20:35 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 22:06 ` Bill Huey
2007-02-27 10:09 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 17:13 ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-27 2:18 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-27 10:13 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 16:01 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-27 16:21 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 16:58 ` Eric Dumazet
2007-02-27 17:06 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 19:20 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-26 19:47 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-25 23:14 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22 14:17 ` Suparna Bhattacharya
2007-02-22 14:36 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-23 14:23 ` Suparna Bhattacharya
2007-02-22 21:24 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-23 0:30 ` Alan
2007-02-23 2:47 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-23 8:31 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-23 10:22 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-23 12:37 ` Alan
2007-02-23 23:49 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-24 1:08 ` Alan
2007-02-24 0:51 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-24 2:17 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-24 3:25 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-23 12:17 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-24 19:52 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-24 21:04 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-24 23:01 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-25 22:44 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-26 13:11 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 17:37 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 18:19 ` Arjan van de Ven
2007-02-26 18:38 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 18:56 ` Chris Friesen
2007-02-26 19:20 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 17:28 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 17:57 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-26 18:32 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 19:22 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-26 19:30 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 20:04 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-27 8:09 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 19:54 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-27 10:28 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 11:52 ` Theodore Tso
2007-02-27 12:11 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 12:13 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-27 12:40 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-28 16:14 ` Pavel Machek
2007-03-01 8:18 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 9:26 ` Pavel Machek
2007-03-01 9:47 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 9:54 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 10:59 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 11:00 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 11:16 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 11:27 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 11:36 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 11:41 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 11:47 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 12:10 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 12:43 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 13:01 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 13:11 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 13:30 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 14:19 ` Eric Dumazet
2007-03-01 14:16 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 14:31 ` Eric Dumazet
2007-03-01 14:27 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 14:54 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 15:09 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 15:36 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-02 10:57 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-02 11:48 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-02 17:32 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-02 19:39 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-02 20:18 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-02 20:29 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-02 20:53 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-02 21:21 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-03-02 21:43 ` Nicholas Miell
2007-03-03 0:52 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-03 1:36 ` Nicholas Miell
2007-03-03 1:48 ` Benjamin LaHaise
2007-03-03 2:19 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-03 7:19 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-03 7:20 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-03 9:02 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-01 19:31 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-02 8:10 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-02 17:13 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-02 19:13 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-03 10:06 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-03 18:46 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-03 20:31 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-03 21:57 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-03 22:10 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-04 16:23 ` Kirk Kuchov
2007-03-04 17:46 ` Kyle Moffett
2007-03-05 5:23 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-03-04 21:17 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-04 22:49 ` Kirk Kuchov
2007-03-04 22:57 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-05 4:46 ` Magnus Naeslund(k)
2007-03-06 8:19 ` Pavel Machek
2007-03-07 12:02 ` Kirk Kuchov
2007-03-07 17:26 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-07 17:39 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-07 18:21 ` Kirk Kuchov
2007-03-07 18:24 ` Jens Axboe
2007-03-07 18:32 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 12:01 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 11:14 ` Eric Dumazet
2007-03-01 11:20 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 11:28 ` Eric Dumazet
2007-03-01 11:47 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 13:12 ` Eric Dumazet
2007-03-01 14:43 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 14:47 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 15:23 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 15:32 ` Eric Dumazet
2007-03-01 15:41 ` Eric Dumazet
2007-03-01 15:51 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 15:47 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 19:47 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-01 14:57 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 12:19 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 12:34 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 13:26 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 13:32 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 14:24 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 16:56 ` David Lang
2007-03-01 17:56 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 18:41 ` David Lang
2007-03-01 19:19 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-01 10:11 ` Pavel Machek
2007-03-01 10:19 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 11:18 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-02 10:27 ` Pavel Machek
2007-03-02 10:37 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-02 10:56 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-02 11:08 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-02 17:28 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-03 10:27 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 19:24 ` Johann Borck
2007-03-01 19:37 ` David Lang
2007-03-01 20:34 ` Johann Borck
2007-02-27 12:34 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-27 13:14 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 13:32 ` Avi Kivity
2007-02-28 3:03 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-28 8:02 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-28 17:01 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-03-05 2:16 ` Discussing LKML community [OT from the Re: [patch 00/13] Syslets, "Threadlets", generic AIO support, v3] Oleg Verych
2007-02-28 16:38 ` [patch 00/13] Syslets, "Threadlets", generic AIO support, v3 Phillip Susi
2007-02-22 19:38 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-28 9:45 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-28 16:17 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-28 16:42 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-28 17:26 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-28 18:22 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-28 18:42 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-28 18:50 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-28 19:03 ` Chris Friesen
2007-02-28 19:42 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-01 8:38 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 9:28 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-28 23:12 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 1:33 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2007-03-01 9:15 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 21:27 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-28 20:21 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-28 21:09 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-28 21:23 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-28 21:46 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-28 22:22 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-28 22:47 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-22 21:23 ` Zach Brown
2007-02-22 21:32 ` Benjamin LaHaise
2007-02-22 21:44 ` Zach Brown
2007-02-22 1:04 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22 7:00 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 9:29 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22 10:01 ` Suparna Bhattacharya
2007-02-22 11:20 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-23 12:52 ` A quick fio test (was Re: [patch 00/13] Syslets, "Threadlets", generic AIO support, v3) Jens Axboe
2007-02-23 13:55 ` Suparna Bhattacharya
2007-02-23 14:58 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-23 15:15 ` Suparna Bhattacharya
2007-02-23 16:25 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-23 17:13 ` Suparna Bhattacharya
2007-02-23 18:35 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-26 13:57 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-26 14:13 ` Suparna Bhattacharya
2007-02-26 14:18 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 14:45 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-27 4:33 ` Suparna Bhattacharya
2007-02-27 9:42 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-27 11:12 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 11:29 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-27 12:19 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 18:45 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-27 19:08 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 19:25 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-27 12:39 ` Suparna Bhattacharya
2007-02-28 8:31 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-28 8:38 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-28 9:07 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-27 13:54 ` Avi Kivity
2007-02-27 15:25 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-27 16:15 ` Avi Kivity
2007-02-27 16:16 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-27 16:26 ` Avi Kivity
2007-02-27 18:49 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-26 21:40 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-23 16:59 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-23 22:31 ` Joel Becker
2007-02-24 12:18 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-24 7:41 ` [patchset] Syslets/threadlets, generic AIO support, v4 Ingo Molnar
2007-02-24 18:34 ` [patch 00/13] Syslets, "Threadlets", generic AIO support, v3 Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-25 17:23 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-25 17:44 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-25 17:54 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-25 18:21 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-25 18:22 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-25 18:37 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-25 18:34 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-25 20:01 ` Frederik Deweerdt
2007-02-25 19:21 ` Ingo Molnar
[not found] ` <20070225194645.GB1353@2ka.mipt.ru>
[not found] ` <20070225195308.GC15681@elte.hu>
[not found] ` <Pine.LNX.4.64.0702251232350.6011@alien.or.mcafeemobile.com>
2007-02-25 21:34 ` threadlets as 'naive pool of threads', epoll, some measurements Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 10:45 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 11:48 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 12:25 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 12:50 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 14:32 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 20:23 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-27 8:16 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 8:27 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-27 10:37 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 12:15 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-27 12:22 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 21:22 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-26 8:16 ` [patch 00/13] Syslets, "Threadlets", generic AIO support, v3 Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 9:25 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 9:55 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 10:31 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 10:43 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 20:02 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-26 10:33 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 10:35 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 10:47 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 12:51 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 16:46 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 6:24 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-27 10:41 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 10:49 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-25 18:25 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-25 18:24 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-25 14:33 ` Threadlet/syslet v4 bug report Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-25 15:24 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-22 12:27 [patch 00/13] Syslets, "Threadlets", generic AIO support, v3 linux
2007-02-22 13:40 ` David Miller
2007-02-22 23:52 ` linux
2007-02-25 19:10 Al Boldi
2007-02-25 19:11 Al Boldi
2007-02-27 14:15 Al Boldi
2007-02-27 19:22 ` Theodore Tso
2007-03-01 10:21 ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-27 14:15 Al Boldi
[not found] <efa6f5910703021120ia0b8d18ne0c806eb2e73da4c@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <20070303103427.GC22557@2ka.mipt.ru>
2007-03-03 10:58 ` Ihar `Philips` Filipau
2007-03-03 11:03 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-03 11:51 ` Ihar `Philips` Filipau
2007-03-03 21:12 ` Ray Lee
2007-03-03 22:14 ` Ihar `Philips` Filipau
2007-03-03 23:54 ` Ray Lee
2007-03-04 9:33 ` Michael K. Edwards
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