Forth interpreter as kernel module

Forth interpreter as kernel module

[Rick A. Hohensee]

Two Forths in Linuxspace now? That's 3 stack machines. Heheheheh,




        MAKE YOUR TIME. ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO KSPAMD.





Does the pforth version run as a kernel daemon like H3rL does?

Phil Burk is I believe still affiliated with Mills College. He'd love to
hear about this. Mike Haas too, probably. Mike Haas wrote the kernel of
Amiga JForth and Phil wrote all the music stuff. I added all the Linux
syscalls to the PForth in cLIeNUX mostly out of nostalgia for JForth, a
"...once in a paradigm thing." Jack "jax" Woehr (sp?). Phil was quite
pleased to hear there's a PForth out there with 160 Linux syscalls as
primitives.

That PForth is in ftp://linux01.gwdg.de/pub/cLIeNUX/interim along with
H3rL, Hohensee's 3-ring Linux, which is a Linux kernel with a 3-stack
machine in 0wnerland. Read ./ABOUT .

Alan,
 an Open Firmware IN kernelspace has the potential to have the
functionality of Open Firmware, AND serve as something like an Open Driver
Initiative, with a performance hit perhaps, depending on how the Forth is
implemented. There are native compiling Forths, but they're not nice tiny
little things.

Ed,
 As far as security is concerned, a Forth on say vt1 (it's on vt1 here,
er, it's H3sm, a 3-stack machine, but anyway...) is no worse really than
root. As far as how a Forth compares to a kdb, it doesn't. Forth is a
debugger, a compiler, an interpreter, AND a desert topping. A forth won't
have the niceties of an evolved unix tool, but you can write them
interactively. And write things you can't imagine until the problem pops
up, like that thing Torvalds did recently for sniffing at some
Torvaldsianly obscure cache tree buffer tree page cache buffer thing. You
can write stuff like that with the same interactivity you associate with
shell scripting.

More to the point, Forth can be a great personalizer of unix/Linux. Sure,
you don't want a Forth in your DNS box. (I do, but...) You do want a Forth
in your multimedia box. Bigtime. Which is why the "forth" command in
cLIeNUX is upforth, PForth with a unix Jones.

If Forth in Linux is going to go somewhere, Mitch Bradley might want to
comment. He's the author of OpenBoot, and I find that some of my best
Forth-on-unix ideas, he had 15 years ago. He left Sun and does Bradley
Forthworks or Forthware, last I heard. Post to comp.lang.forth too.

Rick Hohensee

Birth Of Kspamd reenactment...
imagine each space as *exactly* one second elapsed between string
outputs...

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RE: Forth interpreter as kernel module

[M. Edward Borasky]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org
> [mailto:linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org]On Behalf Of Rick A. Hohensee
> Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 5:22 PM
> To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
> Subject: Forth interpreter as kernel module

> Phil Burk is I believe still affiliated with Mills College. He'd love to
> hear about this. Mike Haas too, probably. Mike Haas wrote the kernel of
> Amiga JForth and Phil wrote all the music stuff. I added all the Linux
> syscalls to the PForth in cLIeNUX mostly out of nostalgia for JForth, a
> "...once in a paradigm thing." Jack "jax" Woehr (sp?). Phil was quite
> pleased to hear there's a PForth out there with 160 Linux syscalls as
> primitives.

Yes, Phil Burk is still doing music ... no, he's not doing it in Forth, but
in Java. Hunt up "jmsl" and "jsyn" for the details. I haven't heard much
from Jack recently; I have his book which had an ANS-ish 16-bit DOS Forth on
a floppy. At one time, I was doing some absolutely *amazing* things with
16-bit Forths on my HP100LX Palmtop PC. Still, I must confess I haven't been
to the Taygeta Scientific Forth archive in over a year.

> More to the point, Forth can be a great personalizer of unix/Linux. Sure,
> you don't want a Forth in your DNS box. (I do, but...) You do want a Forth
> in your multimedia box. Bigtime. Which is why the "forth" command in
> cLIeNUX is upforth, PForth with a unix Jones.

Well, I want a full-strength Forth in my Linux box -- I've got SwiftForth
Pro on my Windows system and I'm holding out for something of that
comprehensive nature on Linux. I have to admit I haven't played with the
gForth that I think comes with my Red Hat distro, so I don't know what it's
like. I've heard hard-core Forthers gag profusely at the mere mention of
gForth.

So, enough "old Forthers home week" on the Linux kernel mailing list, eh?

: TOOT FORTH LOVE IF HONK THEN ;
--
M. Edward (Ed) Borasky, Chief Scientist, Borasky Research
http://www.borasky-research.net  http://www.aracnet.com/~znmeb
mailto:znmeb@borasky-research.net  mailto:znmeb@aracnet.com

Q. Who invented the non-Von Neumann computer architecture?
A. John non-Von Neumann.

Re: RE: Forth interpreter as kernel module

[Rick A. Hohensee]

>Yes, Phil Burk is still doing music ... no, he's not doing it in Forth,
but
>in Java. Hunt up "jmsl" and "jsyn" for the details. I haven't heard much

That's disturbing. And Phil was such a NICE guy. He was telling me about
some FPGA devkit and described it as "HOURS of fun." <solemnly removes hat>

>Well, I want a full-strength Forth in my Linux box -- I've got SwiftForth
>Pro on my Windows system and I'm holding out for something of that
>comprehensive nature on Linux. I have to admit I haven't played with the
>gForth that I think comes with my Red Hat distro, so I don't know what
it's
>like.

I don't know if you want a SwiftForth/VFX/GForth/BigForth/iForth _IN_ your
Linux kernel though. The advantage of unix over WinDoS is that if you have
all the syscalls, which isn't much code, you're not missing much. This is
why I did libsys.a, and two Forths with all the syscalls.

>I've heard hard-core Forthers gag profusely at the mere mention of
>gForth.
>

I hadn't heard that. I think I qualify as a hardcore Forther, which is
probably based on writing your own bizarre Forth variant. GForth isn't
anything to gag about. Bernd and Anton are both perfectly brilliant. I
think, like most large Forths, it depends on locals too soon, and the
emacs tendencies are not to my tastes, but that's superficial, and that's
to be expected for a/the GNU Forth. The threading scheme in the first
H3sm, in Gcc, I lifted straight from GForth; labels-as-values and so on.
GForth is nice, and real close to ANSI.

>So, enough "old Forthers home week" on the Linux kernel mailing list, eh?

It could soon be "New Forthers Bum-Rush Week" in the Linux kernel. Some of
the old guys might like to know they weren't shooting blanks. Haas in
particular had rather unixy tastes for the time. He was the files side of
the great files/blocks flamewar. JForth has atrocities like #include and
so on. JForth is PD now, BTW.

>: TOOT FORTH LOVE IF HONK THEN ;

TOOT
HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONK OK

Rick Hohensee

>--
>M. Edward (Ed) Borasky, Chief Scientist, Borasky Research
>http://www.borasky-research.net  http://www.aracnet.com/~znmeb
>mailto:znmeb@borasky-research.net  mailto:znmeb@aracnet.com
>
>Q. Who invented the non-Von Neumann computer architecture?
>A. John non-Von Neumann.

Actually it was a Forth guy, Von John Neumann Non.