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From: Chi Zhiling <chizhiling@163.com>
To: Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com>,
	"Darrick J. Wong" <djwong@kernel.org>
Cc: Amir Goldstein <amir73il@gmail.com>,
	cem@kernel.org, linux-xfs@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Chi Zhiling <chizhiling@kylinos.cn>,
	John Garry <john.g.garry@oracle.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] xfs: Remove i_rwsem lock in buffered read
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 09:31:22 +0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <fcc1ce0b-7d6b-4d4a-8ef3-da83c4c4eb7d@163.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Z4BbmpgWn9lWUkp3@dread.disaster.area>

On 2025/1/10 07:28, Dave Chinner wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 08, 2025 at 09:35:47AM -0800, Darrick J. Wong wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 08, 2025 at 03:43:04PM +0800, Chi Zhiling wrote:
>>> On 2025/1/7 20:13, Amir Goldstein wrote:
>>>> Dave's answer to this question was that there are some legacy applications
>>>> (database applications IIRC) on production systems that do rely on the fact
>>>> that xfs provides this semantics and on the prerequisite that they run on xfs.
>>>>
>>>> However, it was noted that:
>>>> 1. Those application do not require atomicity for any size of IO, they
>>>>       typically work in I/O size that is larger than block size (e.g. 16K or 64K)
>>>>       and they only require no torn writes for this I/O size
>>>> 2. Large folios and iomap can usually provide this semantics via folio lock,
>>>>       but application has currently no way of knowing if the semantics are
>>>>       provided or not
>>>
>>> To be honest, it would be best if the folio lock could provide such
>>> semantics, as it would not cause any potential problems for the
>>> application, and we have hope to achieve concurrent writes.
>>>
>>> However, I am not sure if this is easy to implement and will not cause
>>> other problems.
>>
>> Assuming we're not abandoning POSIX "Thread Interactions with Regular
>> File Operations", you can't use the folio lock for coordination, for
>> several reasons:
>>
>> a) Apps can't directly control the size of the folio in the page cache
>>
>> b) The folio size can (theoretically) change underneath the program at
>> any time (reclaim can take your large folio and the next read gets a
>> smaller folio)
>>
>> c) If your write crosses folios, you've just crossed a synchronization
>> boundary and all bets are off, though all the other filesystems behave
>> this way and there seem not to be complaints
>>
>> d) If you try to "guarantee" folio granularity by messing with min/max
>> folio size, you run the risk of ENOMEM if the base pages get fragmented
>>
>> I think that's why Dave suggested range locks as the correct solution to
>> this; though it is a pity that so far nobody has come up with a
>> performant implementation.
> 
> Yes, that's a fair summary of the situation.
> 
> That said, I just had a left-field idea for a quasi-range lock
> that may allow random writes to run concurrently and atomically
> with reads.
> 
> Essentially, we add an unsigned long to the inode, and use it as a
> lock bitmap. That gives up to 64 "lock segments" for the buffered
> write. We may also need a "segment size" variable....
> 
> The existing i_rwsem gets taken shared unless it is an extending
> write.
> 
> For a non-extending write, we then do an offset->segment translation
> and lock that bit in the bit mask. If it's already locked, we wait
> on the lock bit. i.e. shared IOLOCK, exclusive write bit lock.
> 
> The segments are evenly sized - say a minimum of 64kB each, but when
> EOF is extended or truncated (which is done with the i_rwsem held
> exclusive) the segment size is rescaled. As nothing can hold bit
> locks while the i_rwsem is held exclusive, this will not race with
> anything.
> 
> If we are doing an extending write, we take the i_rwsem shared
> first, then check if the extension will rescale the locks. If lock
> rescaling is needed, we have to take the i_rwsem exclusive to do the
> EOF extension. Otherwise, the bit lock that covers EOF will
> serialise file extensions so it can be done under a shared i_rwsem
> safely.
> 
> This will allow buffered writes to remain atomic w.r.t. each other,
> and potentially allow buffered reads to wait on writes to the same
> segment and so potentially provide buffered read vs buffered write
> atomicity as well.
> 
> If we need more concurrency than an unsigned long worth of bits for
> buffered writes, then maybe we can enlarge the bitmap further.
> 
> I suspect this can be extended to direct IO in a similar way to
> buffered reads, and that then opens up the possibility of truncate
> and fallocate() being able to use the bitmap for range exclusion,
> too.
> 
> The overhead is likely minimal - setting and clearing bits in a
> bitmap, as opposed to tracking ranges in a tree structure....
> 
> Thoughts?

I think it's fine. Additionally, even if multiple writes occur
in the same segment, if the write operations are within a single
page, we can still acquire the i_rwsem lock in shared mode,
right?


  reply	other threads:[~2025-01-10  1:31 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 49+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2024-12-26  6:16 Chi Zhiling
2024-12-26 21:50 ` Dave Chinner
2024-12-28  7:37   ` Chi Zhiling
2024-12-28 22:17     ` Dave Chinner
2024-12-30  2:42       ` Chi Zhiling
2025-01-07 12:13         ` Amir Goldstein
2025-01-07 17:12           ` Christoph Hellwig
2025-01-08  7:43           ` Chi Zhiling
2025-01-08 11:33             ` Amir Goldstein
2025-01-08 11:45               ` Amir Goldstein
2025-01-08 12:15               ` John Garry
2025-01-09 10:07                 ` Amir Goldstein
2025-01-09 12:40                   ` John Garry
2025-01-09  8:37               ` Chi Zhiling
2025-01-09 10:25                 ` Amir Goldstein
2025-01-09 12:10                   ` Chi Zhiling
2025-01-09 12:25                     ` John Garry
2025-01-08 17:35             ` Darrick J. Wong
2025-01-09 23:28               ` Dave Chinner
2025-01-10  1:31                 ` Chi Zhiling [this message]
2025-01-10 17:07                 ` Amir Goldstein
2025-01-12 10:05                   ` Chi Zhiling
2025-01-13  2:44                     ` Darrick J. Wong
2025-01-13  5:59                       ` Chi Zhiling
2025-01-13 13:40                       ` Brian Foster
2025-01-13 16:19                         ` Darrick J. Wong
2025-01-15  5:55                         ` Christoph Hellwig
2025-01-15 21:41                           ` Dave Chinner
2025-01-16  4:36                             ` Christoph Hellwig
2025-01-17 22:20                               ` Dave Chinner
2025-01-16 14:23                             ` Brian Foster
2025-01-17 13:27                             ` Amir Goldstein
2025-01-17 22:19                               ` Dave Chinner
2025-01-18 13:03                                 ` Amir Goldstein
2025-01-20  5:11                                   ` Dave Chinner
2025-01-22  6:08                                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2025-01-22 23:35                                   ` Dave Chinner
2025-01-17 16:12                             ` Chi Zhiling
2025-01-24  7:57                             ` Chi Zhiling
2025-01-27 20:49                               ` Dave Chinner
2025-01-28  5:15                                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2025-01-28 21:23                                   ` David Laight
2025-01-29  0:59                                   ` Dave Chinner
2025-01-29  5:20                                     ` Christoph Hellwig
2025-02-10  1:44                                 ` Chi Zhiling
2025-01-14  0:09                   ` Dave Chinner
2025-01-25  8:43           ` Jinliang Zheng
2025-01-25 14:14             ` Amir Goldstein
2025-06-20 14:03   ` Jinliang Zheng

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