From: Chi Zhiling <chizhiling@163.com>
To: Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com>,
"Darrick J. Wong" <djwong@kernel.org>
Cc: Amir Goldstein <amir73il@gmail.com>,
cem@kernel.org, linux-xfs@vger.kernel.org,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Chi Zhiling <chizhiling@kylinos.cn>,
John Garry <john.g.garry@oracle.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] xfs: Remove i_rwsem lock in buffered read
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 09:31:22 +0800 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <fcc1ce0b-7d6b-4d4a-8ef3-da83c4c4eb7d@163.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Z4BbmpgWn9lWUkp3@dread.disaster.area>
On 2025/1/10 07:28, Dave Chinner wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 08, 2025 at 09:35:47AM -0800, Darrick J. Wong wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 08, 2025 at 03:43:04PM +0800, Chi Zhiling wrote:
>>> On 2025/1/7 20:13, Amir Goldstein wrote:
>>>> Dave's answer to this question was that there are some legacy applications
>>>> (database applications IIRC) on production systems that do rely on the fact
>>>> that xfs provides this semantics and on the prerequisite that they run on xfs.
>>>>
>>>> However, it was noted that:
>>>> 1. Those application do not require atomicity for any size of IO, they
>>>> typically work in I/O size that is larger than block size (e.g. 16K or 64K)
>>>> and they only require no torn writes for this I/O size
>>>> 2. Large folios and iomap can usually provide this semantics via folio lock,
>>>> but application has currently no way of knowing if the semantics are
>>>> provided or not
>>>
>>> To be honest, it would be best if the folio lock could provide such
>>> semantics, as it would not cause any potential problems for the
>>> application, and we have hope to achieve concurrent writes.
>>>
>>> However, I am not sure if this is easy to implement and will not cause
>>> other problems.
>>
>> Assuming we're not abandoning POSIX "Thread Interactions with Regular
>> File Operations", you can't use the folio lock for coordination, for
>> several reasons:
>>
>> a) Apps can't directly control the size of the folio in the page cache
>>
>> b) The folio size can (theoretically) change underneath the program at
>> any time (reclaim can take your large folio and the next read gets a
>> smaller folio)
>>
>> c) If your write crosses folios, you've just crossed a synchronization
>> boundary and all bets are off, though all the other filesystems behave
>> this way and there seem not to be complaints
>>
>> d) If you try to "guarantee" folio granularity by messing with min/max
>> folio size, you run the risk of ENOMEM if the base pages get fragmented
>>
>> I think that's why Dave suggested range locks as the correct solution to
>> this; though it is a pity that so far nobody has come up with a
>> performant implementation.
>
> Yes, that's a fair summary of the situation.
>
> That said, I just had a left-field idea for a quasi-range lock
> that may allow random writes to run concurrently and atomically
> with reads.
>
> Essentially, we add an unsigned long to the inode, and use it as a
> lock bitmap. That gives up to 64 "lock segments" for the buffered
> write. We may also need a "segment size" variable....
>
> The existing i_rwsem gets taken shared unless it is an extending
> write.
>
> For a non-extending write, we then do an offset->segment translation
> and lock that bit in the bit mask. If it's already locked, we wait
> on the lock bit. i.e. shared IOLOCK, exclusive write bit lock.
>
> The segments are evenly sized - say a minimum of 64kB each, but when
> EOF is extended or truncated (which is done with the i_rwsem held
> exclusive) the segment size is rescaled. As nothing can hold bit
> locks while the i_rwsem is held exclusive, this will not race with
> anything.
>
> If we are doing an extending write, we take the i_rwsem shared
> first, then check if the extension will rescale the locks. If lock
> rescaling is needed, we have to take the i_rwsem exclusive to do the
> EOF extension. Otherwise, the bit lock that covers EOF will
> serialise file extensions so it can be done under a shared i_rwsem
> safely.
>
> This will allow buffered writes to remain atomic w.r.t. each other,
> and potentially allow buffered reads to wait on writes to the same
> segment and so potentially provide buffered read vs buffered write
> atomicity as well.
>
> If we need more concurrency than an unsigned long worth of bits for
> buffered writes, then maybe we can enlarge the bitmap further.
>
> I suspect this can be extended to direct IO in a similar way to
> buffered reads, and that then opens up the possibility of truncate
> and fallocate() being able to use the bitmap for range exclusion,
> too.
>
> The overhead is likely minimal - setting and clearing bits in a
> bitmap, as opposed to tracking ranges in a tree structure....
>
> Thoughts?
I think it's fine. Additionally, even if multiple writes occur
in the same segment, if the write operations are within a single
page, we can still acquire the i_rwsem lock in shared mode,
right?
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2025-01-10 1:31 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 49+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2024-12-26 6:16 Chi Zhiling
2024-12-26 21:50 ` Dave Chinner
2024-12-28 7:37 ` Chi Zhiling
2024-12-28 22:17 ` Dave Chinner
2024-12-30 2:42 ` Chi Zhiling
2025-01-07 12:13 ` Amir Goldstein
2025-01-07 17:12 ` Christoph Hellwig
2025-01-08 7:43 ` Chi Zhiling
2025-01-08 11:33 ` Amir Goldstein
2025-01-08 11:45 ` Amir Goldstein
2025-01-08 12:15 ` John Garry
2025-01-09 10:07 ` Amir Goldstein
2025-01-09 12:40 ` John Garry
2025-01-09 8:37 ` Chi Zhiling
2025-01-09 10:25 ` Amir Goldstein
2025-01-09 12:10 ` Chi Zhiling
2025-01-09 12:25 ` John Garry
2025-01-08 17:35 ` Darrick J. Wong
2025-01-09 23:28 ` Dave Chinner
2025-01-10 1:31 ` Chi Zhiling [this message]
2025-01-10 17:07 ` Amir Goldstein
2025-01-12 10:05 ` Chi Zhiling
2025-01-13 2:44 ` Darrick J. Wong
2025-01-13 5:59 ` Chi Zhiling
2025-01-13 13:40 ` Brian Foster
2025-01-13 16:19 ` Darrick J. Wong
2025-01-15 5:55 ` Christoph Hellwig
2025-01-15 21:41 ` Dave Chinner
2025-01-16 4:36 ` Christoph Hellwig
2025-01-17 22:20 ` Dave Chinner
2025-01-16 14:23 ` Brian Foster
2025-01-17 13:27 ` Amir Goldstein
2025-01-17 22:19 ` Dave Chinner
2025-01-18 13:03 ` Amir Goldstein
2025-01-20 5:11 ` Dave Chinner
2025-01-22 6:08 ` Christoph Hellwig
2025-01-22 23:35 ` Dave Chinner
2025-01-17 16:12 ` Chi Zhiling
2025-01-24 7:57 ` Chi Zhiling
2025-01-27 20:49 ` Dave Chinner
2025-01-28 5:15 ` Christoph Hellwig
2025-01-28 21:23 ` David Laight
2025-01-29 0:59 ` Dave Chinner
2025-01-29 5:20 ` Christoph Hellwig
2025-02-10 1:44 ` Chi Zhiling
2025-01-14 0:09 ` Dave Chinner
2025-01-25 8:43 ` Jinliang Zheng
2025-01-25 14:14 ` Amir Goldstein
2025-06-20 14:03 ` Jinliang Zheng
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=fcc1ce0b-7d6b-4d4a-8ef3-da83c4c4eb7d@163.com \
--to=chizhiling@163.com \
--cc=amir73il@gmail.com \
--cc=cem@kernel.org \
--cc=chizhiling@kylinos.cn \
--cc=david@fromorbit.com \
--cc=djwong@kernel.org \
--cc=john.g.garry@oracle.com \
--cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=linux-xfs@vger.kernel.org \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox
Powered by JetHome