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From: Jonathan Morton <chromi@cyberspace.org>
To: "Dr. Kelsey Hudson" <kernel@blackhole.compendium-tech.com>,
	Augustin Vidovic <vido@ldh.org>
Cc: Dennis <dennis@etinc.com>,
	jesse@cats-chateau.net, A.J.Scott@casdn.neu.edu,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Linux stifles innovation...
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 00:09:01 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <l0313035fb6ba002f9000@[192.168.239.101]> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0102211454440.31651-100000@sol.compendium-tech.com>
In-Reply-To: <20010217110513.E10172@ldh.org>

At 11:00 pm +0000 21/2/2001, Dr. Kelsey Hudson wrote:
>On Sat, 17 Feb 2001, Augustin Vidovic wrote:
>
>> 1- GPL code is the opposite of crap
>
>By saying this, you are implying that all pieces of code released under
>the GPL are 'good' pieces of code. I can give you several examples of code
>where this is not the case; several I have written for my own use, as a
>matter of fact.
>
>Software is only as 'good' as the effort the programmer who wrote it put
>into it. Spend an hour writing a device driver while watching TV, eating
>food, and after a couple dozen beers, and release it under the GPL. Is it
>good code? probably not. :p
>
>This isn't, however, to say that I think commercial code is better than
>GPL code... They both have their merits and deficiencies, so I value both
>equally based upon this (although all software *should* be free...)

I was going to stay out of this after a few days back, but I'll put in one
last point in favour of this:

I have seen good commercial software and extremely bad GPL software.  Here
are some examples:

Good commercialware:
- CorelXARA, by Computer Concepts, which totally blew CorelDRAW out of the
water on release (but then Corel failed to market it and instead nabbed all
the good ideas, tsk tsk)
- the assembler/programmer/emulator for my Motorola 68HC08 microcontroller

Both of these were developed by relatively small companies which don't have
to kowtow to shareholders every 5 minutes.

Terrible GPLware:
- VNC Server for Macintosh, AT&T version 3.3.2 (I tried to debug this and
eventually gave up and rewrote it from scratch)
- Some architectures' ports of the Linux kernel, at least in their current
state (has anyone actually tried to *compile* the PPC kernel since
2.4.<whatever> besides me?)

In the former case, I was able to take the few useful pieces of code and
re-use them in the replacement - which I was *paid* to write, but is still
GPL'ed in the spirit of the VNC project.  In the latter case, people can
see and experience the problem, and get on with fixing it as and when they
need to and/or get time to.  This is somewhat different in nature to, say,
WinNT which dumped the Alpha platform overnight...

I'll shut up now, especially as this isn't exactly the right place for this
discussion...

--------------------------------------------------------------
from:     Jonathan "Chromatix" Morton
mail:     chromi@cyberspace.org  (not for attachments)
big-mail: chromatix@penguinpowered.com
uni-mail: j.d.morton@lancaster.ac.uk

The key to knowledge is not to rely on people to teach you it.

Get VNC Server for Macintosh from http://www.chromatix.uklinux.net/vnc/

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.12
GCS$/E/S dpu(!) s:- a20 C+++ UL++ P L+++ E W+ N- o? K? w--- O-- M++$ V? PS
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-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----



  parent reply	other threads:[~2001-02-22  0:10 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 170+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2001-02-15 17:49 fsnchzjr
2001-02-15 17:55 ` Stephen Frost
2001-02-15 18:04 ` Mark Haney
2001-02-15 19:49   ` David D.W. Downey
2001-02-15 20:20     ` Alan Olsen
2001-02-15 20:42       ` dave
2001-02-15 21:17         ` Richard B. Johnson
2001-02-15 20:43       ` [OTP] " David D.W. Downey
2001-02-15 22:31       ` Bill Wendling
2001-02-15 22:37         ` William T Wilson
2001-02-16 12:45       ` Rik van Riel
2001-02-16 15:10         ` James Sutherland
2001-02-16 16:02           ` Mark Haney
2001-02-16 16:26             ` David Woodhouse
2001-02-16 16:30               ` Mark Haney
2001-02-16 19:23           ` David D.W. Downey
2001-02-16 20:18             ` James Sutherland
2001-02-17  0:03               ` Carlos Fernandez Sanz
2001-02-17  0:35                 ` Dan Hollis
2001-02-17  0:41                   ` Michael H. Warfield
2001-02-17  1:52                     ` Dan Hollis
2001-02-17  2:20                     ` XOR [ was: Linux stifles innovation... ] David Relson
2001-02-17  2:32                       ` Dan Hollis
2001-02-17  8:16                       ` Jonathan Morton
2001-02-17 13:16                       ` David Relson
2001-02-17 18:12                       ` brian
2001-02-18  2:01                         ` Dan Hollis
2001-02-17  9:08                     ` Linux stifles innovation James Sutherland
2001-02-17 12:45                     ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2001-02-17  9:05                 ` James Sutherland
2001-02-17  0:04     ` LA Walsh
2001-02-16  9:26 ` Helge Hafting
2001-02-16  9:36   ` James Sutherland
2001-02-16 12:44     ` Helge Hafting
2001-02-16 17:40     ` Joseph Pingenot
2001-02-16 14:25 ` Andrew Scott
2001-02-16 19:48   ` Jesse Pollard
2001-02-16 22:27   ` Dennis
2001-02-16 22:20     ` Alan Cox
2001-02-17 12:37       ` [LONG RANT] " Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2001-02-17 13:37         ` Russell King
2001-02-17 19:15           ` Henning P . Schmiedehausen
2001-02-17 22:03             ` Felix von Leitner
2001-02-18 11:54               ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2001-02-18 12:26                 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2001-02-18 13:43                 ` Russell King
2001-02-18  9:27             ` Russell King
2001-02-17 19:20           ` Jacob Luna Lundberg
2001-02-18  1:06             ` Peter Samuelson
2001-02-18  4:15             ` Ben Ford
2001-02-17 18:48         ` Jonathan Morton
2001-02-19  9:24         ` Helge Hafting
2001-02-19 10:53         ` Werner Almesberger
2001-02-19 11:07           ` Jeff Garzik
2001-02-19 11:28             ` Nicholas Knight
2001-02-19 11:36               ` David Lang
2001-02-19 12:53                 ` Nicholas Knight
2001-02-19 11:47               ` Jeff Garzik
2001-02-19 12:57                 ` Nicholas Knight
2001-02-19 12:00             ` Werner Almesberger
2001-02-19 12:15             ` Henning P . Schmiedehausen
2001-02-19 16:04               ` Paul Jakma
2001-02-19 16:07               ` Alan Cox
2001-02-19 14:15             ` Jes Sorensen
2001-02-20 23:39             ` Brian May
2001-02-19 11:59           ` Henning P . Schmiedehausen
2001-02-19 13:11             ` Werner Almesberger
2001-02-19 14:07               ` David Howells
2001-02-19 14:55                 ` Jeff Garzik
2001-02-19 15:53                   ` Mikulas Patocka
2001-02-19 16:26                     ` Jeff Garzik
2001-02-19 19:11                       ` The lack of specification (was Re: [LONG RANT] Re: Linux stifles innovation... ) Mikulas Patocka
2001-02-19 20:02                         ` Eric W. Biederman
2001-02-19 20:17                         ` Albert D. Cahalan
2001-02-19 21:18                           ` Mikulas Patocka
2001-02-19 21:34                           ` The lack of specification Russell King
2001-02-19 21:47                             ` Eli Carter
2001-02-19 15:58                   ` [LONG RANT] Re: Linux stifles innovation Richard B. Johnson
2001-02-19 16:14                     ` Jeff Garzik
2001-02-19 16:26                     ` Alan Cox
2001-02-19 21:57                     ` Keith Owens
2001-02-19 19:27             ` Andre Hedrick
2001-02-17 16:54       ` Francois Romieu
2001-02-16 22:31     ` Dan Hollis
2001-02-16 22:51     ` David D.W. Downey
2001-02-16 22:59     ` Linux stifles innovation... [way O.T.] John Cavan
2001-02-16 23:07     ` Linux stifles innovation Mike A. Harris
2001-02-16 23:45       ` Matt D. Robinson
2001-02-16 23:46         ` Mike A. Harris
2001-02-17  0:15           ` Matt D. Robinson
2001-02-17  0:34             ` Werner Almesberger
2001-02-17  0:54               ` Matt D. Robinson
2001-02-17  1:58                 ` Werner Almesberger
2001-02-17 12:41       ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2001-02-17 17:51         ` Robert Read
     [not found]         ` <Pine.LNX.3.96.1010217145415.31128A-100000@orion.hq.dalalu.fr>
2001-02-17 18:40           ` Henning P . Schmiedehausen
2001-02-17  0:01     ` Alan Olsen
2001-02-17  0:10     ` rjd
2001-02-17  1:34     ` Neal Dias
2001-02-17  2:05     ` Augustin Vidovic
2001-02-17 12:46       ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2001-02-17 13:13         ` Roeland Th. Jansen
2001-02-21 23:00       ` Dr. Kelsey Hudson
2001-02-21 23:17         ` Augustin Vidovic
2001-02-22  1:08           ` Dr. Kelsey Hudson
2001-02-22  0:09       ` Jonathan Morton [this message]
2001-02-22  0:21         ` Alan Cox
2001-02-23 12:14         ` Wakko Warner
2001-02-23 12:31           ` David Weinehall
2001-02-27  8:48             ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2001-02-17  7:20     ` Mike Pontillo
2001-02-17 16:11       ` [OT]Re: " Gregory Maxwell
2001-02-17  7:39     ` Vesselin Atanasov
2001-02-17 19:08     ` Dennis
2001-02-17 19:08       ` Mohammad A. Haque
2001-02-17 20:47       ` Alan Cox
2001-02-24 21:11       ` Dennis
2001-02-24 21:06         ` Alan Cox
2001-02-17 19:11     ` Dennis
2001-02-17 19:36       ` Francois Romieu
2001-02-17 20:48       ` Alan Cox
2001-02-17 19:24     ` Dennis
2001-02-17 19:38     ` Dennis
2001-02-17 20:01       ` Michael Bacarella
2001-02-17 20:11         ` James A. Sutherland
2001-02-17 19:56     ` Linux stifles innovation... [way O.T.] Dennis
2001-02-17 20:28       ` Michael H. Warfield
2001-02-18 11:25         ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2001-02-18 15:32           ` John Cavan
2001-02-18  0:13       ` Gerhard Mack
2001-02-17 20:05     ` Linux stifles innovation Dennis
2001-02-17 20:05       ` James A. Sutherland
2001-02-17 20:14       ` Michael H. Warfield
2001-02-18 10:57         ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2001-02-17 20:28       ` Alan Olsen
2001-02-21 23:48         ` Dr. Kelsey Hudson
2001-02-17 22:07       ` Felix von Leitner
2001-02-17 20:08     ` Dennis
2001-02-17 20:22       ` Michael H. Warfield
2001-02-17 20:41       ` Gregory Maxwell
2001-02-18 10:59         ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2001-02-18 21:02           ` Bob Taylor
2001-02-17 22:38       ` Andre Hedrick
2001-02-17 23:07         ` Michael H. Warfield
2001-02-18 15:20       ` Stefan Smietanowski
2001-02-18  0:51     ` Peter Samuelson
2001-02-16 23:33   ` Hristo Doichev
2001-02-16 17:25 ` Byron Albert
2001-02-16 17:21 Wayne.Brown
2001-02-18  2:10 Torrey Hoffman
2001-02-18  3:55 Torrey Hoffman
2001-02-18  5:15 ` Ben Ford
2001-02-18 11:17   ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2001-02-18 16:42   ` Michael H. Warfield
2001-02-18 18:00     ` Gregory S. Youngblood
2001-02-18 18:04       ` Michael H. Warfield
2001-02-19  1:36         ` Gregory S. Youngblood
2001-02-18 18:21       ` Peter Svensson
2001-02-18 11:16 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2001-02-18 12:19   ` Francis Galiegue
2001-02-18 17:50   ` Andre Hedrick
2001-02-18 18:13     ` Henning P . Schmiedehausen
2001-02-18 22:15       ` Andre Hedrick
2001-02-18 22:25       ` Steve VanDevender
2001-02-18 22:31         ` Andre Hedrick
2001-02-18 11:46 ` Alan Cox
2001-02-18 23:14 ` Jonathan Morton
2001-02-22  0:11 ` Dr. Kelsey Hudson
2001-02-22  1:39 Leif Sawyer
2001-02-22  1:44 ` Dr. Kelsey Hudson

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