From: David Woodhouse <dwmw2@infradead.org>
To: Larry McVoy <lm@bitmover.com>
Cc: Stephan von Krawczynski <skraw@ithnet.com>,
jgarzik@pobox.com, lawrence@the-penguin.otak.com,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Troll Tech [was Re: Sco vs. IBM]
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:54:27 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <1056358467.29264.41.camel@passion.cambridge.redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20030621133831.GA10089@work.bitmover.com>
On Sat, 2003-06-21 at 14:38, Larry McVoy wrote:
> Second, the point you are missing, on purpose? is that with a pure
> open source play there is no barrier to entry for anyone else, they
> can take your source and sell it under the same terms.
They can sell it 'under the same terms' in that they can write the same
things on the contract -- but they can't offer the same service and make
it as attractive to the customer -- because although any of your
competitors may be able to copy and distribute the code you wrote, that
doesn't mean they know it and can support it just as well as you can.
To take an example -- if, for the sake of argument, you were to GPL
BitKeeper, do you really think anyone would be able to jump on the
bandwagon and support it as well as you can?
It doesn't work like that -- those who wrote and continue to maintain
the 'official' (or only) branch of the code do have a serious commercial
advantage in offering support.
I've seen customers come to my employer for support on stuff we've
written and maintain, after failing to get satisfaction from our
competitors -- who have access to all the same code. Why do you think
that happens?
> There is a reason that the VC's want to know what you have that noone
> else has and how you are going to keep them from getting it. Hate
> VC's all you want, they still have a point.
They do indeed. But sometimes they have some flawed ideas about
precisely what it _is_ that nobody else has but would need to compete
properly.
It's not just access to the source code of the software -- it runs
deeper than that. To be honest, I consider hiding and restrictively
licensing your code to be largely analogous to security by obscurity --
it tends to work to a large extent but it's a poor substitute for
_really_ fixing the problem, by being able to offer your customers a
decent service and making them want to stay with you.
The increasing prevalence of Free Software means that the industry is
more and more about _services_ rather than products, and hence companies
have to stay alert and think about providing a decent service to their
customers rather than resting their on their laurels and drawing in
money from old technology while papering over the holes.
While I can see that giving the VCs the screaming heebie-jeebies since
it means that IT companies need to work hard to recruit and retain good
people and there are far fewer cash cows, I don't necessarily think it's
a bad thing for the industry or for IT consumers/users in general.
--
dwmw2
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2003-06-23 8:40 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 224+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2003-05-30 8:04 SCO's claims seem empty Martin List-Petersen
2003-05-30 13:01 ` Paul Rolland
2003-05-30 20:20 ` Mark Mielke
2003-05-31 23:06 ` brian
2003-06-01 7:56 ` Paul Rolland
2003-06-01 9:22 ` Lionel Elie Mamane
2003-06-01 9:38 ` Markus Plail
2003-06-01 9:59 ` Adrian Bunk
2003-06-01 9:40 ` Riley Williams
2003-06-01 10:00 ` Michael Frank
2003-06-02 0:03 ` Horst von Brand
2003-06-01 9:40 ` Nicolas Vollmar
2003-06-01 9:58 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-06-01 9:55 ` Adrian Bunk
2003-06-01 9:56 ` Michael Frank
2003-06-01 12:34 ` Paul Rolland
2003-06-01 12:52 ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-06-02 0:15 ` Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-02 1:19 ` Horst von Brand
2003-06-02 11:10 ` uaca
2003-06-02 11:24 ` Stefan Smietanowski
2003-06-06 12:31 ` Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-06 15:13 ` Alan Cox
2003-06-06 16:22 ` Paul Rolland
2003-06-06 17:20 ` Richard B. Johnson
[not found] ` <5.2.0.9.2.20030607044649.00cd4590@pop.gmx.net>
2003-06-18 17:36 ` Sco vs. IBM Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-18 17:58 ` Luigi Rosa
2003-06-18 19:07 ` James Simmons
2003-06-18 19:19 ` Rick Franchuk
2003-06-18 19:39 ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-06-18 19:53 ` Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-18 20:28 ` Tom Diehl
2003-06-18 21:04 ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-06-19 0:20 ` Werner Almesberger
2003-06-19 11:04 ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-06-19 12:00 ` Magnus Solvang
2003-06-19 12:45 ` jdow
2003-06-19 12:57 ` Magnus Solvang
2003-06-19 13:03 ` Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-19 13:14 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-19 13:29 ` Thorsten Körner
2003-06-19 23:39 ` jdow
2003-06-19 14:14 ` Adrian Bunk
2003-06-19 16:34 ` Miquel van Smoorenburg
2003-06-19 16:59 ` Troll Tech [was Re: Sco vs. IBM] Larry McVoy
2003-06-19 17:13 ` ismail (cartman) donmez
2003-06-20 3:12 ` [OT] " Werner Almesberger
2003-06-20 10:09 ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-20 14:24 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-20 14:30 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-20 14:59 ` Michael Poole
2003-06-20 15:34 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-20 15:50 ` Lawrence Walton
2003-06-20 16:02 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-20 16:13 ` Jeff Garzik
2003-06-20 16:33 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-21 1:31 ` Werner Almesberger
2003-06-21 12:20 ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-21 13:38 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-21 14:10 ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-21 17:05 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-06-21 17:54 ` David Weinehall
2003-06-23 8:54 ` David Woodhouse [this message]
2003-06-23 13:22 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-23 13:32 ` David Woodhouse
2003-06-23 13:37 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-23 14:04 ` David Woodhouse
2003-06-23 14:09 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-23 14:26 ` David Woodhouse
2003-06-24 9:51 ` David Blomber
2003-06-23 13:54 ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2003-06-23 13:58 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-23 15:34 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2003-06-23 15:40 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-23 16:13 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-06-23 14:30 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-06-23 15:06 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-23 15:32 ` David Woodhouse
2003-06-23 15:39 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-23 15:59 ` Alan Cox
2003-06-23 16:13 ` David Woodhouse
2003-06-26 17:45 ` Adrian Bunk
2003-06-26 18:40 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-26 19:10 ` David Weinehall
2003-06-26 19:13 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-27 12:51 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-23 15:43 ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-23 15:59 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-23 16:36 ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-23 19:16 ` Werner Almesberger
2003-06-23 16:02 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-06-23 16:11 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-06-23 16:16 ` Alan Cox
2003-06-23 16:35 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-24 22:29 ` Timothy Miller
2003-06-24 18:18 ` Timothy Miller
2003-06-20 17:02 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-20 23:27 ` Paul Mackerras
2003-06-20 16:41 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-20 16:45 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-20 19:35 ` John Alvord
2003-06-21 13:46 ` Paul Jakma
2003-06-23 12:23 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-20 14:44 ` Nick LeRoy
2003-06-20 15:17 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-20 15:49 ` Nick LeRoy
2003-06-20 16:58 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-20 17:01 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-20 17:21 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-20 15:18 ` Werner Almesberger
2003-06-20 15:24 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-20 15:57 ` Jeff Garzik
2003-06-23 19:30 ` Werner Almesberger
2003-06-25 0:31 ` Robert White
2003-06-25 1:21 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-25 3:35 ` Werner Almesberger
2003-06-25 3:37 ` Werner Almesberger
[not found] ` <PEEPIDHAKMCGHDBJLHKGKECCDBAA.rwhite@casabyte.com>
2003-06-25 3:49 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-25 10:11 ` Mike Galbraith
2003-06-25 11:32 ` David Woodhouse
2003-06-25 22:47 ` Timothy Miller
2003-06-26 0:07 ` Robert White
2003-06-26 0:27 ` David Lang
2003-06-26 1:09 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-26 3:29 ` Robert White
2003-06-26 13:44 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-26 7:18 ` David Schwartz
2003-06-26 11:20 ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-26 3:24 ` Paul Jakma
2003-06-26 11:20 ` Daniel Phillips
2003-06-26 13:54 ` Horst von Brand
2003-06-26 22:34 ` Timothy Miller
2003-06-26 22:55 ` Robert White
2003-06-25 20:35 ` Robert White
2003-06-25 21:09 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-25 23:05 ` David Schwartz
2003-06-26 1:14 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-26 2:45 ` David Schwartz
2003-06-26 3:16 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-26 3:38 ` Robert White
2003-06-26 3:50 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-26 12:20 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-06-26 14:45 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-26 15:16 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-06-26 22:49 ` Timothy Miller
2003-06-27 1:17 ` David Schwartz
2003-06-27 1:24 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-26 10:50 ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-26 20:41 ` Robert White
2003-06-26 20:50 ` David Lang
2003-06-26 21:02 ` Robert White
2003-06-26 23:45 ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-27 0:14 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-27 0:24 ` Davide Libenzi
2003-06-27 0:57 ` Robert White
2003-06-27 11:40 ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-30 18:20 ` Timothy Miller
2003-06-26 20:52 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-26 21:39 ` Robert White
2003-06-26 22:48 ` John Alvord
2003-06-26 21:50 ` Robert White
2003-06-27 11:00 ` Alan Cox
2003-06-25 21:27 ` Timothy Miller
2003-06-21 12:28 ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-20 15:46 ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-20 17:31 ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-06-21 7:37 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-06-21 12:34 ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-21 12:55 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-06-21 13:06 ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-21 13:11 ` Matthias Schniedermeyer
2003-06-23 12:16 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-23 12:44 ` Alan Cox
2003-06-23 13:05 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-20 16:27 ` Helge Hafting
2003-06-21 7:50 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-06-21 21:49 ` [OT] Troll Tech Jan Rychter
2003-06-21 22:02 ` Russell King
2003-06-22 1:47 ` Horst von Brand
2003-06-22 14:41 ` Daniel Phillips
2003-06-22 9:24 ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2003-06-23 13:06 ` [OT] Re: Troll Tech [was Re: Sco vs. IBM] Krzysztof Halasa
2003-06-20 19:36 ` Greg KH
2003-06-20 20:12 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-21 0:04 ` Frank Cusack
2003-06-21 0:46 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-21 8:01 ` Martin Diehl
2003-06-21 11:39 ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-21 11:53 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-06-21 12:08 ` Andrey Panin
2003-06-21 19:03 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-06-21 19:54 ` Michael Poole
2003-06-21 22:13 ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-22 1:12 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-06-22 10:30 ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-23 2:00 ` Werner Almesberger
2003-06-19 20:54 ` Sco vs. IBM Robin Rosenberg
2003-06-21 8:03 ` Holger Freyther
2003-06-21 8:12 ` Martin Diehl
2003-06-19 12:08 ` Thorsten Körner
2003-06-19 14:59 ` Bruce Ferrell
[not found] ` <3EF0ABB8.40007@coyotegulch.com>
2003-06-18 18:17 ` Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-19 6:54 ` Dominik Kubla
2003-06-18 18:37 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-06-18 21:43 ` Grzegorz Jaskiewicz
2003-06-06 22:17 ` SCO's claims seem empty Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-06 22:33 ` Rob Landley
2003-06-12 10:20 ` Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-02 11:39 ` Marcus Metzler
2003-06-03 0:42 ` Raimundo Bilbao
2003-05-30 21:16 ` SCO's claims seem empty - Open Source Initiative Paper by Eric Raymond Piet Delaney
[not found] <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306201101240.3705-100000@coffee.psychology.mcmaster.ca>
2003-06-20 15:09 ` [OT] Re: Troll Tech [was Re: Sco vs. IBM] Nick LeRoy
2003-06-20 17:12 Watson, Craig
2003-06-20 17:38 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-20 17:48 Michael Kalus
2003-06-20 20:28 ` Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-20 20:32 Michael Kalus
2003-06-20 21:04 Tom Lord
2003-06-21 1:22 marcelo
2003-06-26 22:05 Mudama, Eric
2003-06-26 22:19 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-26 22:21 ` Robert White
2003-06-27 15:08 Watson, Craig
2003-06-27 23:15 ` Robert White
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