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From: "Robert White" <rwhite@casabyte.com>
To: "Timothy Miller" <miller@techsource.com>
Cc: "David Woodhouse" <dwmw2@infradead.org>,
	"Larry McVoy" <lm@bitmover.com>,
	"Werner Almesberger" <wa@almesberger.net>,
	"Stephan von Krawczynski" <skraw@ithnet.com>,
	<miquels@cistron-office.nl>, <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: RE: [OT] Re: Troll Tech [was Re: Sco vs. IBM]
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:55:03 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <PEEPIDHAKMCGHDBJLHKGKEGMDBAA.rwhite@casabyte.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <3EFB74E7.3030401@techsource.com>



-----Original Message-----
From: Timothy Miller [mailto:miller@techsource.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 3:34 PM

> Robert White wrote:
> >
> > 2) If software is the only thing you do, you are screwed because that
> > immense return on investment is payment in kind so there is no "cash
margin"
> > from which to draw profit.
>
>
> No, if the software economy changes so that you can't sell it then,
> you'll be screwed.  Until then, people see software as something which
> can be sold, so they're going to do it.

I guess I was a bit vague there on number 2.  What I was aiming at was the,
I thought implicit (like that helps 8-) point in the context, question of
"pure software sales" in the age/realm/reality of software derived from or
participant in the OSS domain.  I guess I lost that in my urge to get my
word-count down.  8-)

> There are some types of software that are very difficult to organize in
> the bazaar fashion.  Only a full-time, focused team can do the job in a
> reasonable time period, if at all.  Sometimes, free software developers
> receive the necessary funding, but much more often, only a company which
> is bringing in revenue as a capitalist entity would be able to succeed.

I agree.

In fact that particular "focus" then becomes, in the OSS model, the
_whatever_ that is being provided "along with" the software.  Focus,
commitment, service, responsiveness and so on are *all* primary examples of
the "other than just software" that makes a company feasible.  The current
business models really only value that other when it is hardware or similar
tangible feature, which is ridiculous in our so called "services economy".

The question then, for each company, in an OSS model, can a particular
_whatever_ or combination thereof support the company.  After all, the
software itself is free.

There are contra positives like is OSS the only means to disentangle the IP
claims of what are, for all real purposes, idea squatters?  Can any company
claim sacrosanct autonomy of their software if they use the common public
paradigms of programming like menus and "chrome" and array processing, and
multi-processing and such?  If a company can not "morally" make such claims
because they themselves are engaged in mimicry, how seriously should we take
their claims that they need protection from the mimicry perpetrated by
others?




  reply	other threads:[~2003-06-26 22:47 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 224+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2003-05-30  8:04 SCO's claims seem empty Martin List-Petersen
2003-05-30 13:01 ` Paul Rolland
2003-05-30 20:20   ` Mark Mielke
2003-05-31 23:06   ` brian
2003-06-01  7:56     ` Paul Rolland
2003-06-01  9:22       ` Lionel Elie Mamane
2003-06-01  9:38         ` Markus Plail
2003-06-01  9:59           ` Adrian Bunk
2003-06-01  9:40         ` Riley Williams
2003-06-01 10:00           ` Michael Frank
2003-06-02  0:03           ` Horst von Brand
2003-06-01  9:40         ` Nicolas Vollmar
2003-06-01  9:58           ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-06-01  9:55         ` Adrian Bunk
2003-06-01  9:56         ` Michael Frank
2003-06-01 12:34           ` Paul Rolland
2003-06-01 12:52       ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-06-02  0:15       ` Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-02  1:19         ` Horst von Brand
2003-06-02 11:10           ` uaca
2003-06-02 11:24             ` Stefan Smietanowski
2003-06-06 12:31               ` Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-06 15:13                 ` Alan Cox
2003-06-06 16:22                   ` Paul Rolland
2003-06-06 17:20                     ` Richard B. Johnson
     [not found]                     ` <5.2.0.9.2.20030607044649.00cd4590@pop.gmx.net>
2003-06-18 17:36                       ` Sco vs. IBM Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-18 17:58                         ` Luigi Rosa
2003-06-18 19:07                           ` James Simmons
2003-06-18 19:19                             ` Rick Franchuk
2003-06-18 19:39                             ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-06-18 19:53                               ` Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-18 20:28                                 ` Tom Diehl
2003-06-18 21:04                                   ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-06-19  0:20                           ` Werner Almesberger
2003-06-19 11:04                             ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-06-19 12:00                               ` Magnus Solvang
2003-06-19 12:45                                 ` jdow
2003-06-19 12:57                                   ` Magnus Solvang
2003-06-19 13:03                                     ` Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-19 13:14                                       ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-19 13:29                                         ` Thorsten Körner
2003-06-19 23:39                                           ` jdow
2003-06-19 14:14                                         ` Adrian Bunk
2003-06-19 16:34                                           ` Miquel van Smoorenburg
2003-06-19 16:59                                             ` Troll Tech [was Re: Sco vs. IBM] Larry McVoy
2003-06-19 17:13                                               ` ismail (cartman) donmez
2003-06-20  3:12                                               ` [OT] " Werner Almesberger
2003-06-20 10:09                                                 ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-20 14:24                                                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-20 14:30                                                     ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-20 14:59                                                       ` Michael Poole
2003-06-20 15:34                                                         ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-20 15:50                                                           ` Lawrence Walton
2003-06-20 16:02                                                             ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-20 16:13                                                               ` Jeff Garzik
2003-06-20 16:33                                                                 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-21  1:31                                                                   ` Werner Almesberger
2003-06-21 12:20                                                                   ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-21 13:38                                                                     ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-21 14:10                                                                       ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-21 17:05                                                                         ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-06-21 17:54                                                                           ` David Weinehall
2003-06-23  8:54                                                                       ` David Woodhouse
2003-06-23 13:22                                                                         ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-23 13:32                                                                           ` David Woodhouse
2003-06-23 13:37                                                                             ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-23 14:04                                                                               ` David Woodhouse
2003-06-23 14:09                                                                                 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-23 14:26                                                                                   ` David Woodhouse
2003-06-24  9:51                                                                                   ` David Blomber
2003-06-23 13:54                                                                           ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2003-06-23 13:58                                                                             ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-23 15:34                                                                               ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2003-06-23 15:40                                                                                 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-23 16:13                                                                                 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-06-23 14:30                                                                           ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-06-23 15:06                                                                             ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-23 15:32                                                                               ` David Woodhouse
2003-06-23 15:39                                                                                 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-23 15:59                                                                                   ` Alan Cox
2003-06-23 16:13                                                                                   ` David Woodhouse
2003-06-26 17:45                                                                                   ` Adrian Bunk
2003-06-26 18:40                                                                                     ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-26 19:10                                                                                       ` David Weinehall
2003-06-26 19:13                                                                                         ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-27 12:51                                                                                       ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-23 15:43                                                                               ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-23 15:59                                                                                 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-23 16:36                                                                                   ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-23 19:16                                                                                   ` Werner Almesberger
2003-06-23 16:02                                                                               ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-06-23 16:11                                                                               ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-06-23 16:16                                                                                 ` Alan Cox
2003-06-23 16:35                                                                                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-24 22:29                                                                               ` Timothy Miller
2003-06-24 18:18                                                                 ` Timothy Miller
2003-06-20 17:02                                                           ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-20 23:27                                                           ` Paul Mackerras
2003-06-20 16:41                                                       ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-20 16:45                                                         ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-20 19:35                                                           ` John Alvord
2003-06-21 13:46                                                           ` Paul Jakma
2003-06-23 12:23                                                             ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-20 14:44                                                     ` Nick LeRoy
2003-06-20 15:17                                                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-20 15:49                                                         ` Nick LeRoy
2003-06-20 16:58                                                         ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-20 17:01                                                           ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-20 17:21                                                             ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-20 15:18                                                     ` Werner Almesberger
2003-06-20 15:24                                                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-20 15:57                                                         ` Jeff Garzik
2003-06-23 19:30                                                         ` Werner Almesberger
2003-06-25  0:31                                                         ` Robert White
2003-06-25  1:21                                                           ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-25  3:35                                                             ` Werner Almesberger
2003-06-25  3:37                                                               ` Werner Almesberger
     [not found]                                                             ` <PEEPIDHAKMCGHDBJLHKGKECCDBAA.rwhite@casabyte.com>
2003-06-25  3:49                                                               ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-25 10:11                                                                 ` Mike Galbraith
2003-06-25 11:32                                                                 ` David Woodhouse
2003-06-25 22:47                                                                   ` Timothy Miller
2003-06-26  0:07                                                                     ` Robert White
2003-06-26  0:27                                                                       ` David Lang
2003-06-26  1:09                                                                         ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-26  3:29                                                                           ` Robert White
2003-06-26 13:44                                                                             ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-26  7:18                                                                           ` David Schwartz
2003-06-26 11:20                                                                           ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-26  3:24                                                                         ` Paul Jakma
2003-06-26 11:20                                                                         ` Daniel Phillips
2003-06-26 13:54                                                                         ` Horst von Brand
2003-06-26 22:34                                                                       ` Timothy Miller
2003-06-26 22:55                                                                         ` Robert White [this message]
2003-06-25 20:35                                                                 ` Robert White
2003-06-25 21:09                                                                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-25 23:05                                                                     ` David Schwartz
2003-06-26  1:14                                                                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-26  2:45                                                                         ` David Schwartz
2003-06-26  3:16                                                                           ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-26  3:38                                                                         ` Robert White
2003-06-26  3:50                                                                           ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-26 12:20                                                                         ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-06-26 14:45                                                                           ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-26 15:16                                                                             ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-06-26 22:49                                                                       ` Timothy Miller
2003-06-27  1:17                                                                         ` David Schwartz
2003-06-27  1:24                                                                           ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-26 10:50                                                                     ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-26 20:41                                                                       ` Robert White
2003-06-26 20:50                                                                         ` David Lang
2003-06-26 21:02                                                                           ` Robert White
2003-06-26 23:45                                                                             ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-27  0:14                                                                               ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-27  0:24                                                                                 ` Davide Libenzi
2003-06-27  0:57                                                                               ` Robert White
2003-06-27 11:40                                                                                 ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-30 18:20                                                                                 ` Timothy Miller
2003-06-26 20:52                                                                         ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-26 21:39                                                                           ` Robert White
2003-06-26 22:48                                                                             ` John Alvord
2003-06-26 21:50                                                                           ` Robert White
2003-06-27 11:00                                                                           ` Alan Cox
2003-06-25 21:27                                                             ` Timothy Miller
2003-06-21 12:28                                                       ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-20 15:46                                                     ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-20 17:31                                                       ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-06-21  7:37                                                       ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-06-21 12:34                                                         ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-21 12:55                                                           ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-06-21 13:06                                                             ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-21 13:11                                                             ` Matthias Schniedermeyer
2003-06-23 12:16                                                             ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-23 12:44                                                               ` Alan Cox
2003-06-23 13:05                                                                 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-20 16:27                                                     ` Helge Hafting
2003-06-21  7:50                                                       ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-06-21 21:49                                                         ` [OT] Troll Tech Jan Rychter
2003-06-21 22:02                                                           ` Russell King
2003-06-22  1:47                                                           ` Horst von Brand
2003-06-22 14:41                                                             ` Daniel Phillips
2003-06-22  9:24                                                           ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2003-06-23 13:06                                                         ` [OT] Re: Troll Tech [was Re: Sco vs. IBM] Krzysztof Halasa
2003-06-20 19:36                                                     ` Greg KH
2003-06-20 20:12                                                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-21  0:04                                                     ` Frank Cusack
2003-06-21  0:46                                                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-21  8:01                                                   ` Martin Diehl
2003-06-21 11:39                                                     ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-21 11:53                                                       ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-06-21 12:08                                                         ` Andrey Panin
2003-06-21 19:03                                                   ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-06-21 19:54                                                     ` Michael Poole
2003-06-21 22:13                                                     ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-22  1:12                                                       ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-06-22 10:30                                                         ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-23  2:00                                                     ` Werner Almesberger
2003-06-19 20:54                                             ` Sco vs. IBM Robin Rosenberg
2003-06-21  8:03                                             ` Holger Freyther
2003-06-21  8:12                                               ` Martin Diehl
2003-06-19 12:08                               ` Thorsten Körner
2003-06-19 14:59                               ` Bruce Ferrell
     [not found]                         ` <3EF0ABB8.40007@coyotegulch.com>
2003-06-18 18:17                           ` Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-19  6:54                             ` Dominik Kubla
2003-06-18 18:37                         ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-06-18 21:43                         ` Grzegorz Jaskiewicz
2003-06-06 22:17                   ` SCO's claims seem empty Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-06 22:33                   ` Rob Landley
2003-06-12 10:20                   ` Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-02 11:39             ` Marcus Metzler
2003-06-03  0:42           ` Raimundo Bilbao
2003-05-30 21:16 ` SCO's claims seem empty - Open Source Initiative Paper by Eric Raymond Piet Delaney
     [not found] <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306201101240.3705-100000@coffee.psychology.mcmaster.ca>
2003-06-20 15:09 ` [OT] Re: Troll Tech [was Re: Sco vs. IBM] Nick LeRoy
2003-06-20 17:12 Watson, Craig
2003-06-20 17:38 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-20 17:48 Michael Kalus
2003-06-20 20:28 ` Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-20 20:32 Michael Kalus
2003-06-20 21:04 Tom Lord
2003-06-21  1:22 marcelo
2003-06-26 22:05 Mudama, Eric
2003-06-26 22:19 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-26 22:21 ` Robert White
2003-06-27 15:08 Watson, Craig
2003-06-27 23:15 ` Robert White

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