From: Nigel Cunningham <ncunningham@crca.org.au>
To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Cc: "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@sisk.pl>, Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu>,
David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
Jiri Slaby <jirislaby@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!
Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 12:31:15 +1000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <1209609075.1271.19.camel@nigel-laptop> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.1.10.0804301831330.5994@woody.linux-foundation.org>
Hi.
On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 18:40 -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> The thing is, the quality of individual patches isn't what matters! What
> matters is the quality of the end result. And people are going to be a lot
> more involved in looking at, testing, and working with code that is
> merged, rather than code that isn't.
No. People generally expect that code that has been merged does work, so
they don't look at it unless they're forced to (by a bug or the desire
to make further modifications in that code) and they don't explicitly
seek to test it. They just seek to use it.
When it doesn't work, some of us will go and seek to find the cause,
others (most?) will simply roll back to whatever they last found to be
reliable.
Out of tree code has the same issues.
The only time code really gets looked at and tested is when there's a
problem, or when people are explicitly choosing to inspect it (pre-merge
reviews, eg).
So my answer to the "how do we raise quality" question would be that
when writing the code, we put time and effort into properly analysing
the problem and developing a solution, we put time and effort into
carefully testing the solution, and we put code in that will help the
end-user help us to debug issues later (without them necessarily needing
to git-bisect). After all, good software isn't the result of random (or
semi-random), unconsidered modifications, but of planning, thought and
attention to detail.
In other words, I'm arguing that the speed of merging should be
irrelevant. What's relevant is the quality of the work done in the first
place.
If you want better quality code, penalise the people who get buggy code
merged. Give them a reason to get it in a better state before they try
to merge. Of course Linus alone can't do that.
Nigel
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2008-05-01 2:30 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 229+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2008-04-30 2:03 David Miller
2008-04-30 4:03 ` David Newall
2008-04-30 4:18 ` David Miller
2008-04-30 13:04 ` David Newall
2008-04-30 13:18 ` Michael Kerrisk
2008-04-30 14:51 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-30 18:21 ` David Newall
2008-04-30 18:27 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-30 18:55 ` David Newall
2008-04-30 19:08 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-30 19:16 ` David Newall
2008-04-30 19:25 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-05-01 4:31 ` David Newall
2008-05-01 4:37 ` David Miller
2008-05-01 13:49 ` Lennart Sorensen
2008-05-01 15:28 ` Kasper Sandberg
2008-05-01 17:49 ` Russ Dill
2008-05-02 1:47 ` Kasper Sandberg
2008-05-02 2:54 ` Russ Dill
2008-05-02 7:01 ` Kasper Sandberg
2008-05-02 17:34 ` Lee Mathers (TCAFS)
2008-05-02 18:21 ` Andi Kleen
2008-05-02 21:34 ` Kasper Sandberg
2008-04-30 19:06 ` Chris Friesen
2008-04-30 19:13 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-30 19:22 ` David Newall
2008-04-30 19:42 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-30 7:11 ` Tarkan Erimer
2008-04-30 13:28 ` David Newall
2008-04-30 13:38 ` Mike Galbraith
2008-04-30 14:41 ` mws
2008-04-30 14:55 ` Russ Dill
2008-04-30 14:48 ` Peter Teoh
2008-04-30 19:36 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-04-30 20:00 ` Andrew Morton
2008-04-30 20:20 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-04-30 20:05 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-30 20:14 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-30 20:56 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-04-30 23:34 ` Greg KH
2008-04-30 20:45 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-04-30 21:37 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-30 22:23 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-04-30 22:31 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-30 22:41 ` Andrew Morton
2008-04-30 23:23 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-04-30 23:41 ` david
2008-04-30 23:51 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-05-01 0:57 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-05-01 1:25 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-05-01 2:13 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-05-01 2:30 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-05-01 18:54 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-05-14 14:55 ` Pavel Machek
2008-05-01 1:35 ` Theodore Tso
2008-05-01 12:31 ` Tarkan Erimer
2008-05-01 15:34 ` Stefan Richter
2008-05-02 14:05 ` Tarkan Erimer
2008-04-30 22:46 ` Willy Tarreau
2008-04-30 22:52 ` Andrew Morton
2008-04-30 23:21 ` Willy Tarreau
2008-04-30 23:38 ` Chris Shoemaker
2008-04-30 23:20 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-05-01 0:42 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-05-01 1:19 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-05-01 1:31 ` Andrew Morton
2008-05-01 1:43 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-05-01 10:59 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-05-01 15:26 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-05-01 17:09 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-05-01 17:41 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-05-01 18:11 ` Al Viro
2008-05-01 18:23 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-05-01 18:30 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-05-01 18:58 ` Willy Tarreau
2008-05-01 19:37 ` Al Viro
2008-05-01 19:58 ` Andrew Morton
2008-05-01 20:07 ` Joel Becker
2008-05-01 18:50 ` Willy Tarreau
2008-05-01 19:07 ` david
2008-05-01 19:28 ` Willy Tarreau
2008-05-01 19:46 ` david
2008-05-01 19:53 ` Willy Tarreau
2008-05-01 22:17 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-05-01 19:39 ` Friedrich Göpel
2008-05-01 21:59 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-05-02 12:17 ` Stefan Richter
2008-05-01 18:35 ` Chris Frey
2008-05-02 13:22 ` Enrico Weigelt
2008-05-01 1:40 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-05-01 1:51 ` David Miller
2008-05-01 2:01 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-05-01 2:17 ` David Miller
2008-05-01 2:21 ` Al Viro
2008-05-01 5:19 ` david
2008-05-04 3:26 ` Rene Herman
2008-05-01 2:31 ` Nigel Cunningham [this message]
2008-05-01 18:32 ` Stephen Clark
2008-05-01 3:53 ` Frans Pop
2008-05-01 11:38 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-04-30 14:28 ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-05-01 12:41 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-04-30 15:06 ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-05-01 5:50 ` Willy Tarreau
2008-05-01 11:53 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-05-01 12:11 ` Will Newton
2008-05-01 13:16 ` Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz
2008-05-01 13:53 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-05-01 14:35 ` Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz
2008-05-01 15:29 ` Ray Lee
2008-05-01 19:03 ` Willy Tarreau
2008-05-01 19:36 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2008-05-01 1:30 ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2008-05-01 5:35 ` Willy Tarreau
2008-04-30 23:03 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-04-30 22:40 ` david
2008-04-30 23:45 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-04-30 23:57 ` david
2008-05-01 0:01 ` Chris Shoemaker
2008-05-01 0:14 ` david
2008-05-01 0:38 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-05-01 1:39 ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2008-05-01 0:38 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-05-01 0:56 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-05-01 1:25 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-05-01 12:05 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-05-01 13:54 ` Stefan Richter
2008-05-01 14:06 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-04-30 23:29 ` Paul Mackerras
2008-05-01 1:57 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-01 2:52 ` Frans Pop
2008-05-01 3:47 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-05-01 4:17 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-01 4:46 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-05-04 13:47 ` Krzysztof Halasa
2008-05-04 15:05 ` Jacek Luczak
2008-05-01 9:17 ` Alan Cox
2008-04-30 20:15 ` Andrew Morton
2008-04-30 20:31 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-30 20:47 ` Dan Noe
2008-04-30 20:59 ` Andrew Morton
2008-04-30 21:30 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-04-30 21:37 ` Andrew Morton
2008-04-30 22:08 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-30 22:53 ` Mariusz Kozlowski
2008-04-30 23:11 ` Andrew Morton
2008-05-12 9:27 ` Ben Dooks
2008-05-02 10:20 ` Andi Kleen
2008-05-02 15:33 ` Mariusz Kozlowski
2008-04-30 20:54 ` Andrew Morton
2008-04-30 21:21 ` David Miller
2008-04-30 21:47 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-04-30 22:02 ` Dmitri Vorobiev
2008-04-30 22:19 ` Ingo Molnar
2008-04-30 22:22 ` David Miller
2008-04-30 22:39 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-04-30 22:54 ` david
2008-04-30 23:12 ` Willy Tarreau
2008-04-30 23:59 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-05-01 0:15 ` Chris Shoemaker
2008-05-01 5:09 ` Willy Tarreau
2008-04-30 22:35 ` Ingo Molnar
2008-04-30 22:49 ` Andrew Morton
2008-04-30 22:51 ` David Miller
2008-05-01 1:40 ` Ingo Molnar
2008-05-01 2:48 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-05-05 3:04 ` Rusty Russell
2008-05-02 13:37 ` Helge Hafting
2008-04-30 21:42 ` Dmitri Vorobiev
2008-04-30 22:06 ` Jiri Slaby
2008-04-30 22:10 ` Andrew Morton
2008-04-30 22:19 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-30 22:28 ` Dmitri Vorobiev
2008-05-01 16:26 ` Diego Calleja
2008-05-01 16:31 ` Dmitri Vorobiev
2008-05-02 1:48 ` Stephen Rothwell
2008-05-01 23:06 ` Kevin Winchester
2008-04-30 23:04 ` Dmitri Vorobiev
2008-05-01 15:19 ` Jim Schutt
2008-05-01 6:15 ` Jan Engelhardt
2008-05-09 9:28 ` Jiri Kosina
2008-05-09 15:00 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-04-30 21:52 ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-05-01 3:24 ` Bob Tracy
2008-05-01 16:39 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2008-05-01 0:31 ` RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies Adrian Bunk
2008-04-30 7:03 ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-05-01 8:13 ` Andrew Morton
2008-04-30 14:15 ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-05-01 12:42 ` David Woodhouse
2008-04-30 15:02 ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-05-05 10:03 ` Benny Halevy
2008-05-04 12:45 ` Rene Herman
2008-05-04 13:00 ` Pekka Enberg
2008-05-04 13:19 ` Rene Herman
2008-05-05 13:13 ` crosscompiler [WAS: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies] Enrico Weigelt
2008-05-01 9:16 ` RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies Frans Pop
2008-05-01 10:30 ` Enrico Weigelt
2008-05-01 13:02 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-05-01 11:30 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-04-30 14:20 ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-05-01 12:53 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-05-01 13:21 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-05-01 15:49 ` Andrew Morton
2008-05-01 1:13 ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-05-02 9:00 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-05-01 16:38 ` Steven Rostedt
2008-05-01 17:18 ` Andrew Morton
2008-05-01 17:24 ` Theodore Tso
2008-05-01 19:26 ` Andrew Morton
2008-05-01 19:39 ` Steven Rostedt
2008-05-02 10:23 ` Andi Kleen
2008-05-02 2:08 ` Paul Mackerras
2008-05-02 3:10 ` Josh Boyer
2008-05-02 4:09 ` Paul Mackerras
2008-05-02 8:29 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-05-02 10:16 ` Paul Mackerras
2008-05-02 11:58 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-05-02 14:58 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-05-02 15:44 ` Carlos R. Mafra
2008-05-02 16:28 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-05-02 17:15 ` Carlos R. Mafra
2008-05-02 18:02 ` Pallipadi, Venkatesh
2008-05-09 16:32 ` Mark Lord
2008-05-09 19:30 ` Carlos R. Mafra
2008-05-09 20:39 ` Mark Lord
2008-05-01 0:41 ` David Miller
2008-05-01 13:23 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-04-30 20:59 Slow DOWN, please!!! devzero
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