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From: Sean Estabrooks <seanlkml@rogers.com>
To: Andre Hedrick <andre@linux-ide.org>
Cc: ebiederm@xmission.com, davids@webmaster.com, der.eremit@email.de,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: People, not GPL  [was: Re: Driver Model]
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 06:55:09 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20030914065509.33e31035.seanlkml@rogers.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10309131030590.16744-100000@master.linux-ide.org>

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 10:34:12 -0700 (PDT)
Andre Hedrick <andre@linux-ide.org> wrote:
> 
> On 11 Sep 2003, Eric W. Biederman wrote:
> 
> > "David Schwartz" <davids@webmaster.com> writes:
> > 
> > > 	The GPL_ONLY stuff is an attempt to restrict use. There is nothing
> > > inherently wrong with attempts to restrict use. One could argue that the
> > > root permission check on 'umount' is a restriction on use. Surely the GPL
> > > doesn't mean you can't have any usage restrictions at all.
> > 
> > No the GPL_ONLY stuff is an attempt to document that there is no conceivable
> > way that using a given symbol does not create a derived work.  
> 
> Bzzit ... GPL_ONLY stuff is an attempt to retrict usage by removing access
> to the unprotectable API.  And for anyone claiming there is not API to
> protect, the kernel source is the manual to the API.  The foolish intent
> and design to hide the API has caused the kernel itself to become the
> manual.
> 
> This is even obvious to people, like myself, who are not lawyers.

Andre,

You seem to be mixing two forms of "use"; the right to use GPL'd source
and the right to use an operational Linux kernel.    

You are free to take the source and do whatever you want with it, restricted
only by the terms of the GPL.  Other people have the right to do the same.
There is nothing in the GPL that says how a program must behave when 
_executing_.  Therefore, if you don't like how the resulting executable 
operates, _tough_.   Your option, and the _freedom_ provided by the GPL, 
is to fork the source. 

No different than a kernel provided by the Church of Holy Computation 
which refuses to operate on Sunday.   You may disagree with the 
restriction, but surely they are free to add such a restriction to their
kernel source.

As it stands, you are complaining about a _runtime_ restriction;  ignoring 
your ability to change the source.   By insisting that other people remove 
checks for license type, you are trying to restrict  what others do with 
_their_ source.  By design, the kernel is already full of runtime restrictions. 
There is nothing special about a runtime limitation imposed on modules 
lacking the GPL symbol.   Just to drive the point home,  please consider that there is nothing wrong with a kernel that refuses 
to load modules that _DO_ contain the GPL symbol.

In short, fork off...
Sean


  reply	other threads:[~2003-09-14 10:55 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 102+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <uess.1w0.9@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found] ` <ujV3.1uP.13@gated-at.bofh.it>
2003-09-10 21:52   ` Pascal Schmidt
2003-09-10 22:26     ` David Schwartz
2003-09-10 22:34       ` Pascal Schmidt
2003-09-11  1:35         ` David Schwartz
2003-09-11 13:30           ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-09-11 18:39             ` David Schwartz
2003-09-11 18:45               ` Mike Fedyk
2003-09-13 17:52                 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-13 23:54                   ` Erik Andersen
2003-09-13 17:34             ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-14 10:55               ` Sean Estabrooks [this message]
2003-09-11 14:36           ` Alan Cox
2003-09-13 17:42             ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-12 20:58           ` Timothy Miller
2003-09-12 21:47             ` Matt D. Robinson
2003-09-12 22:31               ` Alan Cox
2003-09-12 23:26                 ` David Schwartz
2003-09-13  0:29                   ` Matt D. Robinson
2003-09-13 17:42                     ` Alan Cox
2003-09-13  5:38                   ` jw schultz
2003-09-13 17:44                   ` Alan Cox
2003-09-13 18:19             ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-13 20:01               ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-13 23:17                 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-14  1:57             ` Erik Andersen
2003-09-14  2:40               ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-14  3:42                 ` Erik Andersen
2003-09-14  3:36                   ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-14  4:37                     ` Erik Andersen
2003-09-14  4:58                       ` freed_symbols [Re: People, not GPL [was: Re: Driver Model]] Andre Hedrick
2003-09-14  5:39                         ` Erik Andersen
2003-09-14  5:32                           ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-14  6:41                             ` Erik Andersen
2003-09-14  6:50                               ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-14  7:10                               ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-14  8:08                                 ` Erik Andersen
2003-09-15  0:17                                   ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-09-15  5:57                                     ` Erik Andersen
2003-09-15  6:14                                       ` Nick Piggin
2003-10-05  0:52                                       ` Rob Landley
2003-10-05  1:05                                         ` Larry McVoy
2003-10-05  2:34                                           ` viro
2003-10-05  3:45                                             ` Larry McVoy
2003-10-05 10:24                                               ` David Woodhouse
2003-10-05 13:56                                                 ` Larry McVoy
2003-10-05 14:14                                                   ` David Woodhouse
2003-10-05 10:23                                           ` David Woodhouse
2003-10-05 11:32                                             ` David Lang
2003-10-05 13:37                                               ` David Woodhouse
2003-10-05  6:40                                         ` Andre Hedrick
2003-10-05  7:39                                           ` viro
2003-10-05 18:27                                           ` David Woodhouse
2003-10-05 19:21                                             ` Andre Hedrick
2003-10-05 20:03                                               ` David Woodhouse
2003-10-05 20:14                                                 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-10-05 20:34                                                   ` David Woodhouse
2003-10-05 20:43                                                     ` Andre Hedrick
2003-10-06  1:22                                                     ` Larry McVoy
2003-10-06  1:37                                                       ` David Lang
2003-10-06  1:51                                                         ` Larry McVoy
2003-10-05 19:32                                             ` Maciej Zenczykowski
2003-10-05 19:47                                               ` Andre Hedrick
2003-10-05 20:38                                                 ` David Woodhouse
2003-10-05 20:46                                                   ` Andre Hedrick
2003-10-05 19:54                                               ` Arjan van de Ven
2003-09-14  8:45                                 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-09-15  0:16                         ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-09-15  0:27                           ` Justin Cormack
2003-09-14 21:40                       ` People, not GPL [was: Re: Driver Model] David Schwartz
2003-09-15  8:06                 ` David S. Miller
2003-09-14  2:51               ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-14  3:05               ` GPL == DMCA [Re: People, not GPL [was: Re: Driver Model]] Andre Hedrick
2003-10-29 22:42             ` People, not GPL [was: Re: Driver Model] David Schwartz
2003-10-29 23:11               ` David S. Miller
2003-10-30  0:10               ` David Schwartz
2003-09-11  1:39         ` David Schwartz
2003-09-13 17:11         ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-13 21:11           ` Pascal Schmidt
2003-09-13 21:19             ` David Schwartz
2003-09-13 21:12               ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-13 22:09               ` Alan Cox
2003-09-13 22:30                 ` David Schwartz
2003-09-14  1:16                   ` Andrew Pimlott
2003-09-15 15:26                   ` Martin Schlemmer
2003-09-13 23:00                 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-12 21:04       ` Timothy Miller
2003-09-12 21:17         ` David Schwartz
2003-09-15 18:24           ` Timothy Miller
2003-09-15 20:17             ` David Schwartz
2003-09-13 18:09         ` Andre Hedrick
     [not found] <fa.fq1hscm.1b7ai1k@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found] ` <fa.n3hqp6f.1rkg0ob@ifi.uio.no>
2003-09-14  4:39   ` walt
     [not found] <vpYm.1Bn.7@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found] ` <vq84.1P5.7@gated-at.bofh.it>
2003-09-13 21:43   ` Pascal Schmidt
2003-09-13  9:08 Nicolas Mailhot
2003-09-13  9:49 ` David Schwartz
2003-09-13 14:37   ` Nicolas Mailhot
2003-09-13 17:16 ` Alan Cox
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2003-09-04  3:01 Driver Model David Schwartz
2003-09-10 14:59 ` People, not GPL [was: Re: Driver Model] Timothy Miller
2003-09-10 20:34   ` David Schwartz
2003-09-12 19:55     ` Timothy Miller
2003-09-13 14:18       ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2003-09-13 17:58         ` Alan Cox
2003-09-10 23:35   ` James Clark

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