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From: Jamie Lokier <jamie@shareable.org>
To: Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>
Cc: "Richard B. Johnson" <root@chaos.analogic.com>,
	Pascal Schmidt <der.eremit@email.de>,
	Larry McVoy <lm@bitmover.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: freed_symbols [Re: People, not GPL [was: Re: Driver Model]]
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:55:03 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20031010125503.GB28224@mail.shareable.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20031007104926.GA1659@openzaurus.ucw.cz>

Pavel Machek wrote:
> > A company makes a new device that could run under Linux.
> > This device uses some standard gate-arrays. Because of
> > this, some gate-array bits need to be loaded upon startup.
> > 
> > The company knows that if the competition learns that a
> > gate-array was used, instead of an ASIC, the competition
> > could clone the whole device in a few weeks, thereby
> > stealing a few million dollars of development effort.
> 
> Since when is creating compatible hw called stealing?!
> If this was such a big problem, nothing prevents you
> from putting ROM with those magic bits... How much is
> that? _5?

Large modern gate arrays use encrypted bitstreams, and even when not
encrypted are very hard to reverse engineer, so that's not the
problem.  It's possible, but very expensive.

Small gate arrays use non-volatile programming anyway.

The problem is blatant copying of the bitstream.

This is trivial whether it's in ROM or not, for anyone capable of
making a device, so gate-array firmware is *no excuse* for keeping the
driver code obscured, not even a _5 excuse.

-- Jamie

  parent reply	other threads:[~2003-10-10 12:55 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 73+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <DIre.Cy.15@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found] ` <DIre.Cy.17@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]   ` <DIre.Cy.19@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]     ` <DIre.Cy.13@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]       ` <DIAQ.2Hh.5@gated-at.bofh.it>
2003-10-06 18:56         ` Pascal Schmidt
2003-10-06 19:09           ` David Lang
2003-10-06 20:08           ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-10-07 10:49             ` Pavel Machek
2003-10-10 12:14               ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-10-10 12:48                 ` David S. Miller
2003-10-10 13:27                 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-10-10 12:55               ` Jamie Lokier [this message]
2003-10-10 13:07                 ` David S. Miller
2003-10-10 13:28                   ` Jamie Lokier
2003-10-06 22:46           ` Andre Hedrick
2003-10-06 23:01             ` Jamie Lokier
2003-10-07  0:20             ` Pascal Schmidt
2003-10-07  2:31               ` Andre Hedrick
2003-10-07 10:03 Pascal Schmidt
     [not found] <Dnwo.1ew.15@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found] ` <DnPL.3XB.11@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]   ` <DsvX.3yN.1@gated-at.bofh.it>
2003-10-06 18:28     ` Pascal Schmidt
2003-10-06 18:38       ` Larry McVoy
2003-10-06 21:29         ` Olivier Galibert
2003-10-07  0:56           ` Larry McVoy
2003-10-07  8:40         ` David Woodhouse
2003-10-07  8:56           ` Andre Hedrick
2003-10-07 10:13             ` Roman Zippel
2003-10-07 10:33               ` Andre Hedrick
2003-10-07 10:44                 ` Roman Zippel
2003-10-07 11:25                   ` Andre Hedrick
2003-10-07 14:03                     ` Roman Zippel
2003-10-07 19:09                       ` David S. Miller
2003-10-07  8:58           ` David S. Miller
2003-10-07 14:16           ` Larry McVoy
2003-10-07 14:48             ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-10-07  8:28       ` David Woodhouse
     [not found] <fa.grj6i7d.lmorqn@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found] ` <fa.n320lec.1p4i0gc@ifi.uio.no>
2003-10-05 16:44   ` walt
     [not found] <vyRY.6te.13@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found] ` <vzkY.7cC.7@gated-at.bofh.it>
2003-09-14  9:16   ` Pascal Schmidt
2003-09-14 17:09     ` Stan Bubrouski
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2003-09-14  4:37 People, not GPL [was: Re: Driver Model] Erik Andersen
2003-09-14  4:58 ` freed_symbols [Re: People, not GPL [was: Re: Driver Model]] Andre Hedrick
2003-09-14  5:39   ` Erik Andersen
2003-09-14  5:32     ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-14  6:41       ` Erik Andersen
2003-09-14  6:50         ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-14  7:10         ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-14  8:08           ` Erik Andersen
2003-09-15  0:17             ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-09-15  5:57               ` Erik Andersen
2003-09-15  6:14                 ` Nick Piggin
2003-10-05  0:52                 ` Rob Landley
2003-10-05  1:05                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-10-05  2:34                     ` viro
2003-10-05  3:45                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-10-05 10:24                         ` David Woodhouse
2003-10-05 13:56                           ` Larry McVoy
2003-10-05 14:14                             ` David Woodhouse
2003-10-05 10:23                     ` David Woodhouse
2003-10-05 11:32                       ` David Lang
2003-10-05 13:37                         ` David Woodhouse
2003-10-05  6:40                   ` Andre Hedrick
2003-10-05  7:39                     ` viro
2003-10-05 18:27                     ` David Woodhouse
2003-10-05 19:21                       ` Andre Hedrick
2003-10-05 20:03                         ` David Woodhouse
2003-10-05 20:14                           ` Andre Hedrick
2003-10-05 20:34                             ` David Woodhouse
2003-10-05 20:43                               ` Andre Hedrick
2003-10-06  1:22                               ` Larry McVoy
2003-10-06  1:37                                 ` David Lang
2003-10-06  1:51                                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-10-05 19:32                       ` Maciej Zenczykowski
2003-10-05 19:47                         ` Andre Hedrick
2003-10-05 20:38                           ` David Woodhouse
2003-10-05 20:46                             ` Andre Hedrick
2003-10-05 19:54                         ` Arjan van de Ven
2003-09-14  8:45           ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-09-15  0:16   ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-09-15  0:27     ` Justin Cormack

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