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From: "Cláudio Martins" <ctpm@ist.utl.pt>
To: James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@suse.de>
Cc: "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	"Martin K. Petersen" <martin.petersen@oracle.com>,
	Tejun Heo <tj@kernel.org>,
	"linux-ide@vger.kernel.org" <linux-ide@vger.kernel.org>,
	lkml <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Daniel Taylor <Daniel.Taylor@wdc.com>,
	Jeff Garzik <jeff@garzik.org>, Mark Lord <kernel@teksavvy.com>,
	tytso@mit.edu, hirofumi@mail.parknet.co.jp,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
	irtiger@gmail.com, Matthew Wilcox <matthew@wil.cx>,
	aschnell@suse.de, knikanth@suse.de, jdelvare@suse.de
Subject: Re: ATA 4 KiB sector issues.
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 20:02:06 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20100308200206.dac60db7.ctpm@ist.utl.pt> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1268074705.10660.23.camel@mulgrave.site>


On Tue, 09 Mar 2010 00:28:25 +0530 James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@suse.de> wrote:
> 
> There's another problem that afflicts 4k drives emulating 512b: they
> have to do a read modify write for any isolated 512b write ... that
> leads to potential corruption of adjacent 512b blocks if power is lost
> at the moment the write is being done.  Since most Linux filesystems are
> 4k sectors, misalignment really hammers this, plus most journal writes
> seem to be done in 512 byte increments.  I suppose for USB this could be
> regarded as flakey as usual, though.
> 

 Most users assume that a single 512B sector write is atomic as far as
power failure is concerned. Hasn't this requirement been carried over
to the new 4k physical sector?

 It seems reasonable that if a 512B sector write is atomic in the older
drives, a 4k sector write would also be atomic on the newer drives,
since the time required to write it is negligible when compared to
capacitor voltage decay and inertia of the disk platters.

 Anyway, I suppose most of the energy/time required for a sector write
operation, is being expended on head assembly positioning and the wait
for the correct sector passing under the write head. That is, the write
operation itself takes so little time that it should make no difference
whether you write 512B or 4k.

 So the question is: what are hard drive makers guaranteeing (if
anything at all)? Was a 512B sector write really atomic? Is a 4k one?
Or was it completely manufacturer-dependent to start?

 Regards

Cláudio


  parent reply	other threads:[~2010-03-08 20:11 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 129+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2010-03-08  3:48 Tejun Heo
2010-03-08  5:38 ` Greg Freemyer
2010-03-08  7:00 ` James Bottomley
2010-03-08  7:53   ` H. Peter Anvin
2010-03-08 15:34     ` Martin K. Petersen
2010-03-09 22:36       ` Daniel Taylor
2010-03-09 22:46     ` Greg Freemyer
2010-03-10  0:05       ` Tejun Heo
2010-03-10  0:14         ` Daniel Taylor
2010-03-10  0:26           ` Tejun Heo
2010-03-10  0:36             ` H. Peter Anvin
2010-03-10  5:17           ` H. Peter Anvin
2010-03-10  7:09           ` Gabor Gombas
2010-03-10  0:32       ` H. Peter Anvin
2010-03-10 10:46         ` Johannes Stezenbach
2010-03-10 11:22           ` H. Peter Anvin
2010-03-08  7:56   ` H. Peter Anvin
2010-03-08 15:33   ` Martin K. Petersen
2010-03-08 15:38     ` Martin K. Petersen
2010-03-08 15:41       ` Martin K. Petersen
2010-03-08 18:50         ` H. Peter Anvin
2010-03-08 18:58           ` James Bottomley
2010-03-08 19:11             ` H. Peter Anvin
2010-03-08 20:02             ` Cláudio Martins [this message]
2010-03-08 21:07               ` Martin K. Petersen
2010-03-08 20:19           ` Martin K. Petersen
2010-03-08 21:16             ` H. Peter Anvin
2010-03-10  0:34           ` Tejun Heo
2010-03-10  7:53         ` Matthew Wilcox
2010-03-10 13:47           ` Jeff Garzik
2010-03-10 16:19             ` Damian Lukowski
2010-03-11 13:04               ` Theodore Tso
2010-03-11 13:57                 ` Nikanth Karthikesan
2010-03-11 14:28                   ` Theodore Tso
2010-03-11 14:39                     ` James Bottomley
2010-03-11 15:05                       ` Nikanth Karthikesan
2010-03-11 15:25                         ` tytso
2010-03-11 16:26                           ` Gene Heskett
2010-03-11 16:34                           ` Greg Freemyer
2010-03-12  1:09                             ` Tejun Heo
2010-03-11 14:48                     ` Mike Snitzer
2010-03-11 15:00                     ` Nikanth Karthikesan
2010-03-11 15:10                       ` Tejun Heo
2010-03-11 16:01                       ` Mike Snitzer
2010-03-11 18:26                         ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-03-11 16:33                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2010-03-08 15:18 ` Martin K. Petersen
2010-03-08 18:29   ` H. Peter Anvin
2010-03-08 20:01     ` Martin K. Petersen
2010-03-08 19:34   ` Mike Snitzer
2010-03-09  2:53     ` Tejun Heo
2010-03-09  3:20       ` Martin K. Petersen
2010-03-09  6:53     ` Michael Tokarev
2010-03-09 10:01       ` Karel Zak
2010-03-09 10:16         ` Michael Tokarev
2010-03-09 11:15           ` Dave Chinner
2010-03-09 11:38             ` Michael Tokarev
2010-03-09 12:20               ` Dave Chinner
2010-03-09 11:50           ` Karel Zak
2010-03-09 12:18           ` Karel Zak
2010-03-10  5:06             ` Martin K. Petersen
2010-03-10 20:50               ` Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
2010-03-10  4:57       ` Martin K. Petersen
2010-03-08 19:58   ` Karel Zak
2010-03-09  2:34     ` Tejun Heo
2010-03-09  2:42       ` Jeff Garzik
2010-03-09  2:49         ` Tejun Heo
2010-03-09  2:42       ` Tejun Heo
2010-03-09  3:11         ` Martin K. Petersen
2010-03-09  3:09       ` Martin K. Petersen
2010-03-09  3:38       ` Daniel Taylor
2010-03-09  4:54         ` Martin K. Petersen
2010-03-09  7:27     ` Jim Meyering
2010-03-09 23:56       ` Tejun Heo
2010-03-08 20:12   ` H. Peter Anvin
2010-03-09  2:22     ` Tejun Heo
2010-03-09  2:44   ` Tejun Heo
2010-03-09  3:18     ` Martin K. Petersen
2010-03-09 14:32       ` Mark Lord
2010-03-09  6:34 ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2010-03-09 10:06   ` Michal Soltys
2010-03-10  0:11     ` Tejun Heo
2010-03-14 21:09       ` Michal Soltys
2010-03-14 22:56         ` s ponnusa
2010-03-09 13:55 ` Mark Lord
2010-03-10  0:00   ` Tejun Heo
2010-03-10  6:08     ` Mark Lord
2010-03-09 23:46 ` Arnd Bergmann
2010-03-10  0:20   ` Tejun Heo
2010-03-10  9:14   ` Denys Vlasenko
2010-03-15  1:21     ` H. Peter Anvin
2010-03-15  2:26       ` Denys Vlasenko
2010-03-15  2:56         ` Greg Freemyer
2010-03-15  4:00         ` H. Peter Anvin
2010-03-15 12:30           ` Arnd Bergmann
2010-03-15  5:20         ` david
2010-03-15  9:56           ` Denys Vlasenko
2010-03-15 14:47             ` H. Peter Anvin
2010-03-16  2:30     ` Tejun Heo
2010-03-16  2:32       ` Tejun Heo
2010-03-16  6:14       ` James Bottomley
2010-03-16  6:22         ` Tejun Heo
2010-03-16 13:24           ` James Bottomley
2010-03-16 13:56             ` Tejun Heo
2010-03-16 14:21               ` James Bottomley
2010-03-16 14:25                 ` Arnd Bergmann
2010-03-16 14:50                 ` Tejun Heo
2010-03-16 15:02                   ` James Bottomley
2010-03-16 15:20                     ` Tejun Heo
2010-03-16 15:22                       ` Martin K. Petersen
2010-03-17  2:07                         ` Tejun Heo
2010-03-16 15:23                       ` James Bottomley
2010-03-16 15:37                         ` Tejun Heo
2010-03-16 20:42                           ` Ric Wheeler
2010-03-17  2:04                             ` Tejun Heo
2010-03-17  2:51                         ` Kevin Easton
2010-03-17  3:44                           ` Tejun Heo
2010-03-17  8:01                             ` jdow
2010-03-17 17:04                       ` Bill Davidsen
2010-03-16 14:38               ` Denys Vlasenko
2010-03-16 15:12                 ` Tejun Heo
2010-03-16 15:25                   ` Denys Vlasenko
2010-03-16 15:47                     ` Tejun Heo
2010-03-17  6:48             ` H. Peter Anvin
2010-03-16  6:27         ` Thomas Chou
2010-03-12  3:10 H. Peter Anvin
2010-03-16 22:21 H. Peter Anvin
2010-03-17 15:08 ` Ric Wheeler
2010-03-17 17:13   ` H. Peter Anvin

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