mirror of https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: "Jon Smirl" <jonsmirl@gmail.com>
To: "Dave Airlie" <airlied@gmail.com>
Cc: "D. Hazelton" <dhazelton@enter.net>,
	"Alan Cox" <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
	"Kyle Moffett" <mrmacman_g4@mac.com>,
	"Manu Abraham" <abraham.manu@gmail.com>,
	"linux cbon" <linuxcbon@yahoo.fr>,
	"Helge Hafting" <helge.hafting@aitel.hist.no>,
	Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: OpenGL-based framebuffer concepts
Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 11:27:49 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <9e4733910605240827w309c4dc7of42ea2def10960c9@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <21d7e9970605232214l3349df0dka162f794f8eddf95@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/24/06, Dave Airlie <airlied@gmail.com> wrote:
> The current system is fixable, we've discussed how to fix it a number
> of times, however there have never been resources to do it, we
> explained to Jon on a number of occasion how we as the maintainers
> felt it should be fixed, the patches he produced didn't follow the
> direction we wanted, he stated "the writer decides", we stated "the
> maintainers don't accept it".

I have done the following things...
1) Repeatedly discussed the design of the fixes in depth on the mailing lists
2) Provided extensive documentation of a path to fix the current set of problems
3) Provided numerous patches fixing various parts of the problem

But now it is a year latter and kernel graphics sits exactly where it
was a year ago. There has been zero forward progress. The X developer
obsession of reducing all OSes to a least common denominator is
clearly holding back Linux graphics support. Merging DRM and fbdev is
a win for Linux since it eliminates one of the places where two
independent drivers are trying to control the same piece of hardware.
The merging is blocked because of issues with DRM on BSD (merging
would introduce GPL code into DRM which couldn't then be ported onto
BSD without forking).

So instead of doing a merge a complicated device driver sharing bus is
being constructed

>Okay I've put up two patches at
>http://www.skynet.ie/~airlied/patches/merge/three_tier.diff
>http://www.skynet.ie/~airlied/patches/merge/three_tier_2.diff
>Neither of these do what I wanted to do but they give a lot of ideas
>on how to do it, the device model required in the end using a bus to
>do this, I actually had some thoughts about it at the X.org developers
>conference earlier in the year while reading LDD, but I've been
>swamped since and probably won't get back to it until OLS.


I'm still sticking with my core driver principles:
1) One driver per device
2) A loaded driver must mark the device in use
3) Don't touch hardware that the driver doesn't own
4) Don't use root priv to bypass OS functions
The current graphics code violates all of these

Blocking my changes has resulted in the loss of a full time developer
from an area that is woefully understaffed. I would strongly suggest
that anyone considering doing work in this area to learn from my
experience. Since acceptance of any work you do is questionable, only
work on tiny pieces. Then when your work is blocked you won't have
lost months of effort. I would recommend doing no more that a week's
work before trying to get it merged. And don't start on other changes
while waiting on results from the first one. If the first one is
blocked (likely) you don't want your second change depending on it.

-- 
Jon Smirl
jonsmirl@gmail.com

  parent reply	other threads:[~2006-05-24 15:27 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 321+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2006-05-16 21:41 replacing X Window System ! linux cbon
2006-05-16 21:51 ` Michal Piotrowski
2006-05-16 21:57 ` Måns Rullgård
2006-05-16 23:23   ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-05-16 22:19 ` alan
2006-05-16 22:42   ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-05-16 23:05     ` alan
2006-05-17 11:47   ` linux cbon
2006-05-17 12:18     ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-05-17 12:39       ` linux cbon
2006-05-17 13:19         ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-05-17 14:10           ` Panagiotis Issaris
2006-05-17 14:19             ` Ondrej Zary
2006-05-17 14:23             ` Olivier Galibert
2006-05-17 14:46               ` Bob Copeland
2006-05-17 13:24         ` Lennart Sorensen
2006-05-17 13:46           ` Bob Copeland
2006-05-17 14:01             ` Michal Piotrowski
2006-05-17 13:39         ` Jesper Juhl
2006-05-17 14:53           ` linux cbon
2006-05-17 15:09             ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-05-17 15:14               ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-05-17 15:30                 ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-05-17 16:29                   ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-05-17 15:53                 ` linux cbon
2006-05-17 16:09                   ` Randy.Dunlap
2006-05-17 16:12                   ` Stas Myasnikov
2006-05-17 15:16             ` Alan Cox
2006-05-17 15:49               ` linux cbon
2006-05-17 16:11                 ` Stas Myasnikov
2006-05-17 17:52             ` Gábor Lénárt
2006-05-17 17:17           ` Felipe Alfaro Solana
2006-05-17 17:33             ` grundig
2006-05-18 15:42               ` Lennart Sorensen
2006-05-18 18:40                 ` grundig
2006-05-18 12:00         ` Helge Hafting
2006-05-18 17:28           ` linux cbon
2006-05-18 18:42             ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-05-18 18:52             ` Thierry Vignaud
2006-05-18 19:31               ` linux cbon
2006-05-18 19:37                 ` David Lang
2006-05-18 20:12                 ` Gerhard Mack
2006-05-18 22:22                   ` linux cbon
2006-05-19  9:09                     ` Martin Mares
2006-05-18 20:12                 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-05-18 21:47                 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-05-18 22:03                   ` linux cbon
2006-05-18 22:23                     ` Al Viro
2006-05-21 14:56                 ` Stefan Smietanowski
2006-05-19  9:26             ` Helge Hafting
2006-05-19 11:08               ` Panagiotis Issaris
2006-05-19 13:07                 ` Helge Hafting
2006-05-19 14:34                 ` David Greaves
2006-05-19 14:40                   ` Xavier Bestel
2006-05-19 15:13                     ` linux cbon
2006-05-19 15:18                       ` Xavier Bestel
2006-05-19 22:09                         ` linux cbon
2006-05-19 22:51                           ` Peter Gordon
2006-05-21 20:49                           ` Xavier Bestel
2006-05-20  0:43                         ` Jeff Carr
2006-05-19 15:01                   ` Sander
2006-05-19 22:29                     ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-05-19 22:34                       ` David Lang
2006-05-19 22:20               ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-05-19 22:40               ` linux cbon
2006-05-20  1:02                 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-05-20  6:31                   ` Willy Tarreau
2006-05-20  8:25                 ` jerome lacoste
2006-05-21  6:16                 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-05-21 12:17                   ` linux cbon
2006-05-21  6:38                 ` Manu Abraham
2006-05-23  5:08                   ` OpenGL-based framebuffer concepts Kyle Moffett
2006-05-23  0:48                     ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-23 17:17                       ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-23 22:57                         ` Matthew Garrett
2006-05-23 23:38                           ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-23 23:24                             ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-24  4:21                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-24  0:42                                 ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-24  4:57                                   ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-24  1:04                                     ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-24 14:30                                   ` Chase Venters
2006-05-24 13:32                                 ` Paulo Marques
2006-05-24  6:39                             ` Helge Hafting
2006-05-24 13:17                             ` Stefan Seyfried
2006-05-24 22:08                             ` Matthew Garrett
2006-05-24 22:09                               ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-24 22:41                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-24  1:50                           ` Jeff Garzik
2006-05-24  7:30                             ` Matthew Garrett
2006-05-24  0:10                         ` Kyle Moffett
2006-05-23 23:27                           ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-24  0:24                           ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-24  7:03                           ` Helge Hafting
2006-05-24 13:55                             ` Alexander E. Patrakov
2006-05-24 14:49                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-24 14:56                                 ` Alexander E. Patrakov
2006-05-24 16:15                                   ` Matheus Izvekov
2006-05-24 16:26                                     ` Alexander E. Patrakov
2006-05-24 16:32                                       ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-26  4:57                                         ` Alexander E. Patrakov
2006-05-26  2:09                                           ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-26  7:12                                         ` Helge Hafting
2006-05-24 16:42                                       ` Matheus Izvekov
2006-05-24 17:34                                       ` Xavier Bestel
2006-05-26  7:05                                         ` Helge Hafting
2006-05-26  7:59                                           ` Xavier Bestel
2006-05-26  6:58                                       ` Helge Hafting
2006-05-24 22:03                               ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-26  7:08                               ` Helge Hafting
2006-05-26  8:32                                 ` Alexander E. Patrakov
2006-05-26 10:58                                   ` Helge Hafting
2006-05-26 11:06                                     ` Xavier Bestel
2006-05-24 15:41                             ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2006-05-23 10:11                     ` Alan Cox
2006-05-23 10:28                       ` Jeff Garzik
2006-05-23 14:10                         ` Kyle Moffett
2006-05-23 14:43                           ` Alan Cox
2006-05-23 15:41                             ` Kyle Moffett
2006-05-23 16:53                               ` Alan Cox
     [not found]                                 ` <9b5164430605231015s40ebcd38had1c3029da8afc7@mail.gmail.com>
2006-05-23 17:21                                   ` Xiong Jiang
2006-05-24 12:47                                     ` Alan Cox
2006-05-23 23:31                                 ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-23 15:52                             ` Rene Rebe
2006-05-23 23:41                         ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-24  4:48                         ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-24  5:24                           ` Jeff Garzik
2006-05-23 23:38                       ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-24  4:08                         ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-24  0:17                           ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-24  5:14                             ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-24  1:30                               ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-24  5:48                                 ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-24  2:11                                   ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-26 17:53                                 ` Pavel Machek
2006-05-27 18:03                                   ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-24 15:27                               ` Jon Smirl [this message]
2006-05-24 23:18                                 ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-24 23:56                                   ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-25  0:31                                     ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-25  0:55                                     ` Jeff Garzik
2006-05-25  2:37                                       ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-25  8:44                                         ` Jeff Garzik
2006-05-25 14:04                                           ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-25 15:07                                             ` Jeff Garzik
2006-05-25 15:37                                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-25 23:04                                                 ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-25 23:17                                                   ` Jeff Garzik
2006-05-25 23:31                                                     ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-25 23:19                                                 ` Jeff Garzik
2006-05-25 23:48                                                   ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-25 15:57                                               ` Paulo Marques
2006-05-25 18:01                                                 ` Alan Cox
2006-05-26 11:26                               ` Olivier Galibert
2006-05-25 16:13                           ` Greg KH
2006-05-26 17:39                           ` Pavel Machek
2006-05-27 18:01                             ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-28  0:03                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-27 22:13                                 ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-28  2:34                                   ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-27 22:45                                     ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-28  3:27                                       ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-28  1:12                                         ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-28 23:13                                           ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-28 23:16                                             ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-29  3:43                                               ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-29  4:05                                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-29  0:25                                                 ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-29  4:58                                                   ` Neil Brown
2006-05-29  2:07                                                     ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-29  5:14                                                     ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-29  2:09                                                       ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-29  5:28                                                       ` Neil Brown
2006-05-29  7:14                                                   ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-31 21:42                                               ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-05-31 21:15                                                 ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-01  9:43                                                   ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-06-01 11:51                                                     ` Marko M
2006-06-01 15:54                                                       ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-01 21:39                                                     ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-05-29  0:59                                             ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-29  1:29                                               ` Daniel Stone
2006-05-29  2:28                                                 ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-30 17:40                                               ` David Lang
2006-05-30 21:53                                                 ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-05-30 21:55                                                   ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-05-30 22:13                                                   ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-02  8:36                                                   ` Ondrej Zajicek
2006-06-02  8:58                                                     ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-02 18:49                                                       ` David Lang
2006-06-02 22:01                                                         ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-02 19:57                                                           ` David Lang
2006-06-02 23:25                                                             ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-06-03  6:32                                                               ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-03  7:05                                                                 ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-06-03 16:35                                                                   ` Kyle Moffett
2006-06-03 20:55                                                                     ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-06-02 12:17                                                     ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-05-30 22:35                                                 ` Ondrej Zajicek
2006-05-30 22:55                                                   ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-31  6:48                                                     ` Martin Mares
2006-05-31  7:13                                                       ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-31  3:25                                                         ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-31  7:19                                                         ` Martin Mares
2006-05-31 12:09                                                       ` Helge Hafting
2006-05-31 13:34                                                       ` Pavel Machek
2006-05-31 13:56                                                         ` Martin Mares
2006-05-30 23:21                                                   ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-05-31  8:26                                                     ` Ondrej Zajicek
2006-05-31 10:25                                                       ` Marko M
2006-05-31 11:59                                                       ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-05-31 19:24                                                     ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2006-05-31 19:57                                                       ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-31 20:32                                                         ` Matthew Garrett
2006-05-31 21:23                                                           ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-01  2:21                                                         ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-05-29 10:23                                             ` Pavel Machek
2006-05-29 10:36                                               ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-29 12:48                                                 ` Pavel Machek
2006-05-29 21:23                                                   ` Jeff Garzik
2006-05-29 21:45                                                     ` Pavel Machek
2006-05-30 17:44                                                       ` David Lang
2006-05-30 20:18                                                         ` Pavel Machek
2006-05-29 22:10                                                     ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-29 22:58                                                       ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-29 22:57                                                     ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-29 23:23                                                   ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-29 23:48                                                     ` Marko M
2006-05-30  1:39                                                       ` Ian Kester-Haney
2006-05-30  2:09                                                         ` Randy.Dunlap
     [not found]                                                           ` <441e43c90605291936t19caa0eat4bd4b699e0ac9202@mail.gmail.com>
2006-05-30  2:37                                                             ` Fwd: " Ian Kester-Haney
2006-05-30 10:49                                                         ` Alexey Dobriyan
2006-05-30 20:24                                                     ` Pavel Machek
2006-05-30 20:56                                                       ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-30 21:15                                                         ` Ian Kester-Haney
2006-05-30 23:01                                                         ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-30 23:27                                                           ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-30 23:14                                                             ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-31  4:02                                                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-31  0:11                                                                 ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-31  4:16                                                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-31  0:26                                                                 ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-31  4:39                                                                   ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-31  0:45                                                                     ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-01  0:50                                                                     ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-06-01  1:37                                                                       ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-01  1:56                                                                         ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-06-01  2:19                                                                           ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-31 22:36                                                                             ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-01  2:49                                                                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-01  9:28                                                                     ` Ondrej Zajicek
2006-06-01 16:59                                                                       ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-01 14:59                                                                         ` David Lang
2006-06-01 16:03                                                                           ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-01 20:35                                                                             ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-01 16:47                                                                               ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-01 21:21                                                                                 ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-01 22:22                                                                                   ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-01 21:05                                                                               ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-06-01 21:23                                                                                 ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-01 21:31                                                                                   ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-06-01 21:48                                                                                     ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-01 22:21                                                                                       ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-01 23:14                                                                                       ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-06-01 23:00                                                                                 ` Andrew Morton
2006-06-01 23:39                                                                                   ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-06-01 23:14                                                                               ` Dave Airlie
2006-06-01 23:38                                                                                 ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-01 23:47                                                                                   ` Dave Airlie
2006-06-02  0:45                                                                                     ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-02  9:05                                                                                       ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-02  9:03                                                                               ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-02  1:15                                                                         ` Dave Airlie
2006-06-02  2:18                                                                           ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-01 22:34                                                                             ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-02  2:58                                                                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-01 23:01                                                                                 ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-02  3:16                                                                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-02  0:34                                                                                 ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-02  2:45                                                                             ` Dave Airlie
2006-06-02  3:27                                                                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-02  4:28                                                                                 ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-02  0:35                                                                                   ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-02  9:00                                                                                 ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-03  3:21                                                                             ` Kyle Moffett
2006-06-03  1:25                                                                               ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-03  5:55                                                                                 ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-03  2:09                                                                                   ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-03  6:31                                                                                     ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-03  2:38                                                                                       ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-03  4:03                                                                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-08  7:02                                                                             ` Helge Hafting
2006-06-08  7:40                                                                               ` Daniel Hazelton
2006-06-08  8:30                                                                                 ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-06-09  2:44                                                                                   ` Daniel Hazelton
2006-06-02  4:34                                                                           ` Ville Syrjälä
2006-06-02  0:36                                                                             ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-02  6:19                                                                             ` Dave Airlie
2006-06-02 17:31                                                                               ` Ville Syrjälä
2006-06-02  1:42                                                                         ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-05-31  8:08                                                               ` Pavel Machek
2006-05-30 23:38                                                             ` Daniel Stone
2006-05-30 23:38                                                               ` Pavel Machek
2006-05-30 23:55                                                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-30 23:38                                                             ` Pavel Machek
2006-05-31  0:00                                                               ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-05-31  0:47                                                                 ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-31  1:23                                                                   ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-05-31  2:34                                                                     ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-18 20:27           ` replacing X Window System ! D. Hazelton
2006-05-17 13:20     ` Lennart Sorensen
2006-05-17 18:34   ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-05-16 23:10 ` Felipe Alfaro Solana
2006-05-17  8:46   ` Ondrej Zary
2006-05-17  9:59     ` Carlos Silva
2006-05-17 13:27     ` Lennart Sorensen
2006-05-17 17:37       ` David Schwartz
2006-05-17 17:46         ` alan
2006-05-17 17:56           ` Gábor Lénárt
2006-05-17 17:12     ` Felipe Alfaro Solana
2006-05-19 10:27     ` [OT] " Jan Knutar

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=9e4733910605240827w309c4dc7of42ea2def10960c9@mail.gmail.com \
    --to=jonsmirl@gmail.com \
    --cc=Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu \
    --cc=abraham.manu@gmail.com \
    --cc=airlied@gmail.com \
    --cc=alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk \
    --cc=dhazelton@enter.net \
    --cc=helge.hafting@aitel.hist.no \
    --cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=linuxcbon@yahoo.fr \
    --cc=mrmacman_g4@mac.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox

all inboxes | Powered by JetHome®