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From: "Jon Smirl" <jonsmirl@gmail.com>
To: "D. Hazelton" <dhazelton@enter.net>
Cc: "Dave Airlie" <airlied@gmail.com>,
	"Ondrej Zajicek" <santiago@mail.cz>,
	"Pavel Machek" <pavel@ucw.cz>,
	"Alan Cox" <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
	"Kyle Moffett" <mrmacman_g4@mac.com>,
	"Manu Abraham" <abraham.manu@gmail.com>,
	"linux cbon" <linuxcbon@yahoo.fr>,
	"Helge Hafting" <helge.hafting@aitel.hist.no>,
	Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	adaplas@gmail.com
Subject: Re: OpenGL-based framebuffer concepts
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 23:16:12 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <9e4733910606012016r2f8d4708hc092eb3dd9b925a2@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <200606012234.31566.dhazelton@enter.net>

On 6/1/06, D. Hazelton <dhazelton@enter.net> wrote:
> VT switch to a VT where X is running. X will still require a VT and assume it
> has good access to the graphics system. While currently it has no problems,
> when drmcon becomes a reality there will have to be a state switch between
> the consoles settings and the setting for the VT running X.

I forgot to include comments on VT's.

We need to reconsider how VT's are implemented. I would like to remove
them from the kernel. Now don't get too excited, I also want to
replace them with a system that would function the same for a normal
user.

There is only one VT system in the kernel. Making it support more that
one user requires a gigantic patch (18,000 lines). That patch has been
floating around for years and has never been merged. I don't think it
makes sense to extend the existing VT code even further to support
multiuser.

My proposal would be to switch to the concept of splitting console as
I described earlier. There would only be one in-kernel system
management console and it wouldn't support VT's. The system management
console is not meant for normal use.

Normal consoles would be implemented via user space processes. These
processes would provide the VT swap feature that people are used to.
They would also be accelerated via DRM. Since they are user space apps
it is easy to support multiuser by having multiple processes.

Getting rid of the VT implementation inside of the kernel lets us move
towards the single state in the hardware goal. The current in-kernel
VT design forces the "save your state, now I'll load mine" behavior.
That behavior is evil and it is the source of a lot of problems and it
should be removed. VT's were a good idea on VGA cards with 14
registers, now cards have 300 registers, a coprocessor, 512MB, etc.
There is simply too much state to swap.

In this model there would be no change at the normal user level,
Ctrl-Atl-num at a normal user console will still get you another
session. A hot key would display the system management console,
another would make it disappear.

-- 
Jon Smirl
jonsmirl@gmail.com

  parent reply	other threads:[~2006-06-02  3:16 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 321+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2006-05-16 21:41 replacing X Window System ! linux cbon
2006-05-16 21:51 ` Michal Piotrowski
2006-05-16 21:57 ` Måns Rullgård
2006-05-16 23:23   ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-05-16 22:19 ` alan
2006-05-16 22:42   ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-05-16 23:05     ` alan
2006-05-17 11:47   ` linux cbon
2006-05-17 12:18     ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-05-17 12:39       ` linux cbon
2006-05-17 13:19         ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-05-17 14:10           ` Panagiotis Issaris
2006-05-17 14:19             ` Ondrej Zary
2006-05-17 14:23             ` Olivier Galibert
2006-05-17 14:46               ` Bob Copeland
2006-05-17 13:24         ` Lennart Sorensen
2006-05-17 13:46           ` Bob Copeland
2006-05-17 14:01             ` Michal Piotrowski
2006-05-17 13:39         ` Jesper Juhl
2006-05-17 14:53           ` linux cbon
2006-05-17 15:09             ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-05-17 15:14               ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-05-17 15:30                 ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-05-17 16:29                   ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-05-17 15:53                 ` linux cbon
2006-05-17 16:09                   ` Randy.Dunlap
2006-05-17 16:12                   ` Stas Myasnikov
2006-05-17 15:16             ` Alan Cox
2006-05-17 15:49               ` linux cbon
2006-05-17 16:11                 ` Stas Myasnikov
2006-05-17 17:52             ` Gábor Lénárt
2006-05-17 17:17           ` Felipe Alfaro Solana
2006-05-17 17:33             ` grundig
2006-05-18 15:42               ` Lennart Sorensen
2006-05-18 18:40                 ` grundig
2006-05-18 12:00         ` Helge Hafting
2006-05-18 17:28           ` linux cbon
2006-05-18 18:42             ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-05-18 18:52             ` Thierry Vignaud
2006-05-18 19:31               ` linux cbon
2006-05-18 19:37                 ` David Lang
2006-05-18 20:12                 ` Gerhard Mack
2006-05-18 22:22                   ` linux cbon
2006-05-19  9:09                     ` Martin Mares
2006-05-18 20:12                 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-05-18 21:47                 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-05-18 22:03                   ` linux cbon
2006-05-18 22:23                     ` Al Viro
2006-05-21 14:56                 ` Stefan Smietanowski
2006-05-19  9:26             ` Helge Hafting
2006-05-19 11:08               ` Panagiotis Issaris
2006-05-19 13:07                 ` Helge Hafting
2006-05-19 14:34                 ` David Greaves
2006-05-19 14:40                   ` Xavier Bestel
2006-05-19 15:13                     ` linux cbon
2006-05-19 15:18                       ` Xavier Bestel
2006-05-19 22:09                         ` linux cbon
2006-05-19 22:51                           ` Peter Gordon
2006-05-21 20:49                           ` Xavier Bestel
2006-05-20  0:43                         ` Jeff Carr
2006-05-19 15:01                   ` Sander
2006-05-19 22:29                     ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-05-19 22:34                       ` David Lang
2006-05-19 22:20               ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-05-19 22:40               ` linux cbon
2006-05-20  1:02                 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-05-20  6:31                   ` Willy Tarreau
2006-05-20  8:25                 ` jerome lacoste
2006-05-21  6:16                 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-05-21 12:17                   ` linux cbon
2006-05-21  6:38                 ` Manu Abraham
2006-05-23  5:08                   ` OpenGL-based framebuffer concepts Kyle Moffett
2006-05-23  0:48                     ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-23 17:17                       ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-23 22:57                         ` Matthew Garrett
2006-05-23 23:38                           ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-23 23:24                             ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-24  4:21                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-24  0:42                                 ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-24  4:57                                   ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-24  1:04                                     ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-24 14:30                                   ` Chase Venters
2006-05-24 13:32                                 ` Paulo Marques
2006-05-24  6:39                             ` Helge Hafting
2006-05-24 13:17                             ` Stefan Seyfried
2006-05-24 22:08                             ` Matthew Garrett
2006-05-24 22:09                               ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-24 22:41                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-24  1:50                           ` Jeff Garzik
2006-05-24  7:30                             ` Matthew Garrett
2006-05-24  0:10                         ` Kyle Moffett
2006-05-23 23:27                           ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-24  0:24                           ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-24  7:03                           ` Helge Hafting
2006-05-24 13:55                             ` Alexander E. Patrakov
2006-05-24 14:49                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-24 14:56                                 ` Alexander E. Patrakov
2006-05-24 16:15                                   ` Matheus Izvekov
2006-05-24 16:26                                     ` Alexander E. Patrakov
2006-05-24 16:32                                       ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-26  4:57                                         ` Alexander E. Patrakov
2006-05-26  2:09                                           ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-26  7:12                                         ` Helge Hafting
2006-05-24 16:42                                       ` Matheus Izvekov
2006-05-24 17:34                                       ` Xavier Bestel
2006-05-26  7:05                                         ` Helge Hafting
2006-05-26  7:59                                           ` Xavier Bestel
2006-05-26  6:58                                       ` Helge Hafting
2006-05-24 22:03                               ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-26  7:08                               ` Helge Hafting
2006-05-26  8:32                                 ` Alexander E. Patrakov
2006-05-26 10:58                                   ` Helge Hafting
2006-05-26 11:06                                     ` Xavier Bestel
2006-05-24 15:41                             ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2006-05-23 10:11                     ` Alan Cox
2006-05-23 10:28                       ` Jeff Garzik
2006-05-23 14:10                         ` Kyle Moffett
2006-05-23 14:43                           ` Alan Cox
2006-05-23 15:41                             ` Kyle Moffett
2006-05-23 16:53                               ` Alan Cox
     [not found]                                 ` <9b5164430605231015s40ebcd38had1c3029da8afc7@mail.gmail.com>
2006-05-23 17:21                                   ` Xiong Jiang
2006-05-24 12:47                                     ` Alan Cox
2006-05-23 23:31                                 ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-23 15:52                             ` Rene Rebe
2006-05-23 23:41                         ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-24  4:48                         ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-24  5:24                           ` Jeff Garzik
2006-05-23 23:38                       ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-24  4:08                         ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-24  0:17                           ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-24  5:14                             ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-24  1:30                               ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-24  5:48                                 ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-24  2:11                                   ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-26 17:53                                 ` Pavel Machek
2006-05-27 18:03                                   ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-24 15:27                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-24 23:18                                 ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-24 23:56                                   ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-25  0:31                                     ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-25  0:55                                     ` Jeff Garzik
2006-05-25  2:37                                       ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-25  8:44                                         ` Jeff Garzik
2006-05-25 14:04                                           ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-25 15:07                                             ` Jeff Garzik
2006-05-25 15:37                                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-25 23:04                                                 ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-25 23:17                                                   ` Jeff Garzik
2006-05-25 23:31                                                     ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-25 23:19                                                 ` Jeff Garzik
2006-05-25 23:48                                                   ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-25 15:57                                               ` Paulo Marques
2006-05-25 18:01                                                 ` Alan Cox
2006-05-26 11:26                               ` Olivier Galibert
2006-05-25 16:13                           ` Greg KH
2006-05-26 17:39                           ` Pavel Machek
2006-05-27 18:01                             ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-28  0:03                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-27 22:13                                 ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-28  2:34                                   ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-27 22:45                                     ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-28  3:27                                       ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-28  1:12                                         ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-28 23:13                                           ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-28 23:16                                             ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-29  3:43                                               ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-29  4:05                                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-29  0:25                                                 ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-29  4:58                                                   ` Neil Brown
2006-05-29  2:07                                                     ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-29  5:14                                                     ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-29  2:09                                                       ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-29  5:28                                                       ` Neil Brown
2006-05-29  7:14                                                   ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-31 21:42                                               ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-05-31 21:15                                                 ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-01  9:43                                                   ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-06-01 11:51                                                     ` Marko M
2006-06-01 15:54                                                       ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-01 21:39                                                     ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-05-29  0:59                                             ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-29  1:29                                               ` Daniel Stone
2006-05-29  2:28                                                 ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-30 17:40                                               ` David Lang
2006-05-30 21:53                                                 ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-05-30 21:55                                                   ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-05-30 22:13                                                   ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-02  8:36                                                   ` Ondrej Zajicek
2006-06-02  8:58                                                     ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-02 18:49                                                       ` David Lang
2006-06-02 22:01                                                         ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-02 19:57                                                           ` David Lang
2006-06-02 23:25                                                             ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-06-03  6:32                                                               ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-03  7:05                                                                 ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-06-03 16:35                                                                   ` Kyle Moffett
2006-06-03 20:55                                                                     ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-06-02 12:17                                                     ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-05-30 22:35                                                 ` Ondrej Zajicek
2006-05-30 22:55                                                   ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-31  6:48                                                     ` Martin Mares
2006-05-31  7:13                                                       ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-31  3:25                                                         ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-31  7:19                                                         ` Martin Mares
2006-05-31 12:09                                                       ` Helge Hafting
2006-05-31 13:34                                                       ` Pavel Machek
2006-05-31 13:56                                                         ` Martin Mares
2006-05-30 23:21                                                   ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-05-31  8:26                                                     ` Ondrej Zajicek
2006-05-31 10:25                                                       ` Marko M
2006-05-31 11:59                                                       ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-05-31 19:24                                                     ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2006-05-31 19:57                                                       ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-31 20:32                                                         ` Matthew Garrett
2006-05-31 21:23                                                           ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-01  2:21                                                         ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-05-29 10:23                                             ` Pavel Machek
2006-05-29 10:36                                               ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-29 12:48                                                 ` Pavel Machek
2006-05-29 21:23                                                   ` Jeff Garzik
2006-05-29 21:45                                                     ` Pavel Machek
2006-05-30 17:44                                                       ` David Lang
2006-05-30 20:18                                                         ` Pavel Machek
2006-05-29 22:10                                                     ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-29 22:58                                                       ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-29 22:57                                                     ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-29 23:23                                                   ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-29 23:48                                                     ` Marko M
2006-05-30  1:39                                                       ` Ian Kester-Haney
2006-05-30  2:09                                                         ` Randy.Dunlap
     [not found]                                                           ` <441e43c90605291936t19caa0eat4bd4b699e0ac9202@mail.gmail.com>
2006-05-30  2:37                                                             ` Fwd: " Ian Kester-Haney
2006-05-30 10:49                                                         ` Alexey Dobriyan
2006-05-30 20:24                                                     ` Pavel Machek
2006-05-30 20:56                                                       ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-30 21:15                                                         ` Ian Kester-Haney
2006-05-30 23:01                                                         ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-30 23:27                                                           ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-30 23:14                                                             ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-31  4:02                                                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-31  0:11                                                                 ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-31  4:16                                                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-31  0:26                                                                 ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-31  4:39                                                                   ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-31  0:45                                                                     ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-01  0:50                                                                     ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-06-01  1:37                                                                       ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-01  1:56                                                                         ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-06-01  2:19                                                                           ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-31 22:36                                                                             ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-01  2:49                                                                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-01  9:28                                                                     ` Ondrej Zajicek
2006-06-01 16:59                                                                       ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-01 14:59                                                                         ` David Lang
2006-06-01 16:03                                                                           ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-01 20:35                                                                             ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-01 16:47                                                                               ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-01 21:21                                                                                 ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-01 22:22                                                                                   ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-01 21:05                                                                               ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-06-01 21:23                                                                                 ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-01 21:31                                                                                   ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-06-01 21:48                                                                                     ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-01 22:21                                                                                       ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-01 23:14                                                                                       ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-06-01 23:00                                                                                 ` Andrew Morton
2006-06-01 23:39                                                                                   ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-06-01 23:14                                                                               ` Dave Airlie
2006-06-01 23:38                                                                                 ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-01 23:47                                                                                   ` Dave Airlie
2006-06-02  0:45                                                                                     ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-02  9:05                                                                                       ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-02  9:03                                                                               ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-02  1:15                                                                         ` Dave Airlie
2006-06-02  2:18                                                                           ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-01 22:34                                                                             ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-02  2:58                                                                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-01 23:01                                                                                 ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-02  3:16                                                                               ` Jon Smirl [this message]
2006-06-02  0:34                                                                                 ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-02  2:45                                                                             ` Dave Airlie
2006-06-02  3:27                                                                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-02  4:28                                                                                 ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-02  0:35                                                                                   ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-02  9:00                                                                                 ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-03  3:21                                                                             ` Kyle Moffett
2006-06-03  1:25                                                                               ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-03  5:55                                                                                 ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-03  2:09                                                                                   ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-03  6:31                                                                                     ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-03  2:38                                                                                       ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-03  4:03                                                                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-08  7:02                                                                             ` Helge Hafting
2006-06-08  7:40                                                                               ` Daniel Hazelton
2006-06-08  8:30                                                                                 ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-06-09  2:44                                                                                   ` Daniel Hazelton
2006-06-02  4:34                                                                           ` Ville Syrjälä
2006-06-02  0:36                                                                             ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-02  6:19                                                                             ` Dave Airlie
2006-06-02 17:31                                                                               ` Ville Syrjälä
2006-06-02  1:42                                                                         ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-05-31  8:08                                                               ` Pavel Machek
2006-05-30 23:38                                                             ` Daniel Stone
2006-05-30 23:38                                                               ` Pavel Machek
2006-05-30 23:55                                                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-30 23:38                                                             ` Pavel Machek
2006-05-31  0:00                                                               ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-05-31  0:47                                                                 ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-31  1:23                                                                   ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-05-31  2:34                                                                     ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-18 20:27           ` replacing X Window System ! D. Hazelton
2006-05-17 13:20     ` Lennart Sorensen
2006-05-17 18:34   ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-05-16 23:10 ` Felipe Alfaro Solana
2006-05-17  8:46   ` Ondrej Zary
2006-05-17  9:59     ` Carlos Silva
2006-05-17 13:27     ` Lennart Sorensen
2006-05-17 17:37       ` David Schwartz
2006-05-17 17:46         ` alan
2006-05-17 17:56           ` Gábor Lénárt
2006-05-17 17:12     ` Felipe Alfaro Solana
2006-05-19 10:27     ` [OT] " Jan Knutar

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