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From: Chen Yu <chen.yu@linux.dev>
To: K Prateek Nayak <kprateek.nayak@amd.com>
Cc: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	Chen Yu <yu.c.chen@intel.com>,
	Tim Chen <tim.c.chen@linux.intel.com>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>,
	Juri Lelli <juri.lelli@redhat.com>,
	Vincent Guittot <vincent.guittot@linaro.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-arch@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-s390@vger.kernel.org, linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org,
	linux-mips@vger.kernel.org, loongarch@lists.linux.dev,
	driver-core@lists.linux.dev,
	Sudeep Holla <sudeep.holla@kernel.org>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rafael@kernel.org>,
	Danilo Krummrich <dakr@kernel.org>,
	Huacai Chen <chenhuacai@kernel.org>,
	Thomas Bogendoerfer <tsbogend@alpha.franken.de>,
	Jiaxun Yang <jiaxun.yang@flygoat.com>,
	Madhavan Srinivasan <maddy@linux.ibm.com>,
	Heiko Carstens <hca@linux.ibm.com>,
	Vasily Gorbik <gor@linux.ibm.com>,
	Alexander Gordeev <agordeev@linux.ibm.com>,
	"David S. Miller" <davem@davemloft.net>,
	Andreas Larsson <andreas@gaisler.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@kernel.org>, Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@linux.intel.com>,
	x86@kernel.org, Dietmar Eggemann <dietmar.eggemann@arm.com>,
	Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
	Ben Segall <bsegall@google.com>, Mel Gorman <mgorman@suse.de>,
	Valentin Schneider <vschneid@redhat.com>,
	Shrikanth Hegde <sshegde@linux.ibm.com>,
	WANG Xuerui <kernel@xen0n.name>,
	Michael Ellerman <mpe@ellerman.id.au>,
	Nicholas Piggin <npiggin@gmail.com>,
	Christophe Leroy <chleroy@kernel.org>,
	Christian Borntraeger <borntraeger@linux.ibm.com>,
	Sven Schnelle <svens@linux.ibm.com>,
	"H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v3 00/13] lib, sched: Introduce sparsebitmap (sbm)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2026 17:10:04 +0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <asDGbBEHkDouWOwC@three-body> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20261001192849.74788-1-kprateek.nayak@amd.com>

Hello Prateek!

Thanks for bringing this interesting topic,

On Thu, Oct 01, 2026 at 07:28:36PM +0000, K Prateek Nayak wrote:
> 
> Problem
> =======
> 
>                                             %cycles vs global mask operation
> 
> global mask                                     : 100.0000%  (var: 3.28%)
> per-NUMA mask                                   :  32.9209%  (var: 7.77%)
> per-LLC mask                                    :   1.2977%  (var: 4.85%)
> per-LLC mask (u8 operation; no LOCK prefix)     :   0.4930%  (var: 0.83%)
> 

This shows a significant latency improvement, especially in the per-LLC (u64, u8) case.
May I know if schbench / sched-messaging were used?

> 
> Future work
> ===========
> 
> o Interoperability with cpumaks since sbm lose the crucial optimizations
>   that come naturally from for_each_cpu_and() iterations.
>
> o Different data representation - using the u8 variant for updates and
>   then perform a "gather" operation to build a dense mask.
> 
> o Extending sbm work to help in wakeup (and possibly resurrect Mel's
>   optimization from [4] in some form). The current sbm is still far away
>   from being used for wakeups since  updates  to sbm leaf, even on a
>   16CPUs per LLC system is visible in benchmark performance (~8-10%).
> 

If we leverage sbm for the wakeup path, it is a per-LLC mask, there seems to be
no much difference from Mel Gorman's proposal of allocating per sd_share
unsigned long idle_cpus_span[]? The frequent update to this mask might still cause
c2c latency within 1 LLC. A wild guess is that maybe the u8 version is more suitable,
because it has only max-to-8 CPUs touching the mask at the same time?

My understanding is that the major case that sbm could fit is turning the global bitmask
into a per-LLC bitmask, because it mainly avoids CPUs on different LLC/node writing the
same cache line frequently (nohz.idle_cpus_mask set via nohz_balance_enter_idle() on
many CPUs, etc), which might cause a costly cache RFO event storm. Meanwhile, with sbm,
at the reader side, _nohz_idle_balance() could start scanning from the current CPU to find
an idle CPU, so as to avoid the costly HITM event - the reader is on LLC1, while the writer
is on LLC0 - so maybe:

for_each_cpu_wrap(balance_cpu, nohz.idle_cpus_mask, this_cpu+1)

could start from this_cpu's LLC sibling first, rather than this_cpu + 1, because this_cpu+1
might not always be the LLC sibling of this_cpu.

I found that in the current code, there are also other global mask:
rd->rto_mask(mentioned by Pan Deng when running ffmpeg[1])
rd->dlo_mask
tick_broadcast_**mask
maybe they can also be converted into sbm.

[1] https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/a3207ebf537bbe5605ff5454f63b5604d83a04a0.1753076363.git.pan.deng@intel.com/

thanks,
Chenyu 

  parent reply	other threads:[~2026-10-03  9:09 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 18+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2026-10-01 19:28 K Prateek Nayak
2026-10-01 19:28 ` [RFC PATCH v3 01/13] lib/sbm: Introduce helpers for architectures to configure LLC properties K Prateek Nayak
2026-10-01 19:28 ` [RFC PATCH v3 02/13] drivers/base/arch_topology: Add support for initializing sbm topology K Prateek Nayak
2026-10-01 19:28 ` [RFC PATCH v3 03/13] LoongArch: Initialize CPU _PXM relation for disabled CPUs from SRAT K Prateek Nayak
2026-10-01 19:28 ` [RFC PATCH v3 04/13] LoongArch: Configure sbm topology during SMP preparation K Prateek Nayak
2026-10-01 19:28 ` [RFC PATCH v3 05/13] MIPS: Initialize sbm topology on multi-node systems K Prateek Nayak
2026-10-01 19:28 ` [RFC PATCH v3 06/13] powerpc/setup: Initialize sbm topology based on coregroup / NUMA topology K Prateek Nayak
2026-10-01 19:28 ` [RFC PATCH v3 07/13] s390/topology: Initialize sbm topology during topology_init_early() K Prateek Nayak
2026-10-01 19:28 ` [RFC PATCH v3 08/13] sparc64: Initialize sbm topology on multi-LLC system K Prateek Nayak
2026-10-01 19:28 ` [RFC PATCH v3 09/13] x86/cpu/topology: Initialize sbm topology after topology parsing K Prateek Nayak
2026-10-03  8:27   ` Chen Yu
2026-10-04  6:17     ` K Prateek Nayak
2026-10-01 19:28 ` [RFC PATCH v3 10/13] lib/sbm: Dynamically allocate sbm index when CPU is activated K Prateek Nayak
2026-10-01 19:28 ` [RFC PATCH v3 11/13] lib/sbm: Add helpers to allocate, set, clear, and traverse the bits on sbm K Prateek Nayak
2026-10-01 19:28 ` [RFC PATCH v3 12/13] sched/fair: Allocate nohz.idle_cpus_mask during sched_init_smp() K Prateek Nayak
2026-10-01 19:28 ` [RFC PATCH v3 13/13] sched/fair: Switch nohz.idle_cpus to use sbm K Prateek Nayak
2026-10-03  9:10 ` Chen Yu [this message]
2026-10-04  6:13   ` [RFC PATCH v3 00/13] lib, sched: Introduce sparsebitmap (sbm) K Prateek Nayak

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