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From: Troy Benjegerdes <hozer@hozed.org>
To: Theodore Tso <tytso@mit.edu>
Cc: Laurent Pinchart <laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com>,
	"Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM)" <ljs@kernel.org>,
	Krzysztof Kozlowski <krzk@kernel.org>,
	Sasha Levin <sashal@kernel.org>,
	corbet@lwn.net, skhan@linuxfoundation.org, rdunlap@infradead.org,
	federico.vaga@vaga.pv.it, apw@canonical.com, joe@perches.com,
	workflows@vger.kernel.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Justin Stitt <justinstitt@google.com>,
	Carlos Maiolino <cem@kernel.org>,
	Jakub Kicinski <kuba@kernel.org>,
	Jori Koolstra <jkoolstra@xs4all.nl>,
	Brian Foster <bfoster@redhat.com>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>,
	David Disseldorp <ddiss@suse.de>, Mark Brown <broonie@kernel.org>,
	Jani Nikula <jani.nikula@intel.com>, Jens Axboe <axboe@kernel.dk>,
	"David Hildenbrand (Arm)" <david@kernel.org>,
	Vlastimil Babka <vbabka@kernel.org>,
	"Christian Brauner (Amutable)" <brauner@kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] docs: remove Assisted-by references
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2026 16:21:49 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <atjmnZl3tQ_1uaSJ@false> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <atggaWq0EU6Km8r0@mit.edu>

On Tue, Oct 20, 2026 at 10:54:40PM -0400, Theodore Tso wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2026 at 12:15:32AM -0500, Laurent Pinchart wrote:
> > I fully understand that many maintainers currently feel they're too
> > pressured to invest time in the next generation. We need to find
> > solutions to make that possible.
> 
> One possibility is to create tools and/or procedure to amplify signals
> about which newcomers are most likely to become the next generation,
> as opposed to someone who is just sending drive-by patches.
> 
> The reality is that the vast majority of first time patch submitters
> won't become part of the next generation.  So if we are getting 10x
> the newcomers, if we can be more discerning about which newcomers we
> invest in, the project won't die, even if we are ignoring, 3x to 5x
> the number of newcomers.
> 
> > This is something we really need to improve quickly. Over the past week
> > multiple active kernel developers asked me if I thought they needed to
> > find a job elsewhere, thinking maintainers will now ignore anything but
> > perfect patches and dismiss contributions from developers who don't use
> > LLMs. That's a wrong impression (at least I very much hope so, and you
> > clarified that you're not advocating for that), but it's a disastrous
> > impression that many people got from the maintainers summit and the
> > following mailing lists discussions.
> 
> If someone is an active kernel developer, presumably they already have
> enough of reputation that they won't get ignored.  The issue is really
> going to be newcomers who don't yet enough of a reputation, not
> "active kernel developres who are wondering if they need to find a job
> elsewhere".
> 
> And if they have a job, meaning they are in the industry, hopefully
> their employer is willing and able to hire a more senior kernel
> developer with a reputation in the industry to help them out.
> Fortunately, certain companies like Oracle have graciously been
> releasing a lot of such talent on the market, so these people *are*
> available.  :-)

Where's the job board for this. Or if you know of some developers that
want to come to a farm and work on RiscV-linux farm robots I can provide
food, housing, and whatever my experience is worth.

> A senior kernel developer will be able to help introduce more junior
> developers to the community, both online via e-mail and at conferences
> such as Plumbers.  More importantly, the more senior kernel developer
> can help the more junior developer write cover letters which better
> motivate why a particular patch is important.  Half the problem is
> that a lot of the "AI Slop" patches aren't particular important, and
> in some cases, the business case has been wildly exagerated.
> 
> (For example, there was the patch which claimed to address a very high
> severity "one click exploit" bug --- but the exploit required (a)
> tricking someone to download a malicious file system image, and (b)
> running a fairly obscure "tune2fs -U random" command on said image,
> and (c) be stupid enough do it as root to justify the astronomical
> CVSS score.  By calling this a "one click exploit" with an extremely
> high CVSS score, that engineer and their company has been forever
> tainted in my eyes, and you can *bet* that I'm going to take any
> patches from them far less seriously.)
> 
> Anyway, all of this might mean that someone who has zero prior
> reputation, and doesn't have the $$$ to attend a conference, and who
> isn't able to get a job at a company where a more senior kernel
> engineer can introduce them to the community, and who can't get a
> position at a mentorship program like Outreachy or GSOC might have a
> much harder time to get a maintainer's attention.  Yes, this will suck
> for some newcomers; but so long as we get enough new blood from other
> sources (such as new college grads working at a traditional Linux
> company), it doesn't follow that just because we aren't engaging with
> *every* *single* *newcomer* that it spells doom for the Linux kernel
> community.
> 
> 					- Ted

Those newcomers need viable paths for employment, at least in the
current system. I think if AI companies want to maintain their sky-high
stock valuations, there will have to use some of that theoretical market
cap by actually committed to resolving and paying off technical debt.

What if we had a "pay-per-patch" model? Would this help or would it just
turn into a game where whomever has the most money gets their patches 
reviewed?

  reply	other threads:[~2026-10-21 16:21 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 71+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2026-10-09  8:31 Sasha Levin
2026-10-09  9:38 ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-09 10:09   ` Sasha Levin
2026-10-09 10:05 ` Krzysztof Kozlowski
2026-10-09 10:24   ` Greg KH
2026-10-09 15:20   ` Jonathan Corbet
2026-10-11  1:04     ` Steven Rostedt
2026-10-12 15:42   ` Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM)
2026-10-13 11:19     ` Jori Koolstra
2026-10-13 12:38       ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-13 12:50         ` Jori Koolstra
2026-10-13 13:01           ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-13 13:24         ` Ricardo B. Marlière (SUSE)
2026-10-13 12:49       ` Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM)
2026-10-13 17:16         ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-13 12:31     ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-13 12:59       ` Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM)
2026-10-13 13:04         ` Krzysztof Kozlowski
2026-10-13 13:07           ` Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM)
2026-10-13 13:12         ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-13 13:29           ` Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM)
2026-10-13 13:37             ` Jori Koolstra
2026-10-13 14:52             ` Kees Cook
2026-10-13 14:54               ` Jori Koolstra
2026-10-13 14:58               ` Jori Koolstra
2026-10-13 17:12                 ` Kees Cook
2026-10-13 17:42                   ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-13 19:25                     ` Kees Cook
2026-10-13 20:16                       ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-13 20:45                         ` Linus Torvalds
2026-10-14 13:56                           ` Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM)
2026-10-16 14:19                             ` Matthew Brost
2026-10-17 17:42                               ` Troy Benjegerdes
2026-10-19 17:41                           ` lyude
2026-10-14 18:47                         ` Kees Cook
2026-10-15 23:14                           ` Jeremy Dean Clifton
2026-10-13 15:02               ` Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM)
2026-10-13 16:58                 ` Kees Cook
2026-10-13 17:32             ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-16 16:14               ` Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM)
2026-10-20 21:15                 ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-21  2:54                   ` Theodore Tso
2026-10-21 16:21                     ` Troy Benjegerdes [this message]
2026-10-14  3:23             ` Theodore Tso
2026-10-14 11:23               ` Mark Brown
2026-10-14 13:08               ` Jori Koolstra
2026-10-14 13:42               ` Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM)
2026-10-14 14:15                 ` Mark Brown
2026-10-19 22:44                 ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-20  4:28                   ` Theodore Tso
2026-10-19 16:32               ` lyude
2026-10-21 16:07                 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2026-10-19 22:24               ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-19 16:26             ` lyude
2026-10-16 18:26           ` Ihor Solodrai
2026-10-19 16:21           ` lyude
2026-10-13  4:24 ` Kees Cook
2026-10-13  5:56   ` Randy Dunlap
2026-10-13  6:18     ` Greg KH
2026-10-13  8:25     ` Kees Cook
2026-10-13 12:28       ` [PATCH] docs: remove Assisted-by reference Jori Koolstra
2026-10-13 12:55         ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-13 13:03           ` Jori Koolstra
2026-10-13 13:10             ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-13 13:20               ` Jori Koolstra
2026-10-13 13:55                 ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-19 16:50                 ` lyude
2026-10-13 15:18           ` Mark Brown
2026-10-13 17:07             ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-13 20:01               ` Shuah Khan
2026-10-19 16:15         ` lyude

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