From: Troy Benjegerdes <hozer@hozed.org>
To: Theodore Tso <tytso@mit.edu>
Cc: Laurent Pinchart <laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com>,
"Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM)" <ljs@kernel.org>,
Krzysztof Kozlowski <krzk@kernel.org>,
Sasha Levin <sashal@kernel.org>,
corbet@lwn.net, skhan@linuxfoundation.org, rdunlap@infradead.org,
federico.vaga@vaga.pv.it, apw@canonical.com, joe@perches.com,
workflows@vger.kernel.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
Justin Stitt <justinstitt@google.com>,
Carlos Maiolino <cem@kernel.org>,
Jakub Kicinski <kuba@kernel.org>,
Jori Koolstra <jkoolstra@xs4all.nl>,
Brian Foster <bfoster@redhat.com>,
Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>,
David Disseldorp <ddiss@suse.de>, Mark Brown <broonie@kernel.org>,
Jani Nikula <jani.nikula@intel.com>, Jens Axboe <axboe@kernel.dk>,
"David Hildenbrand (Arm)" <david@kernel.org>,
Vlastimil Babka <vbabka@kernel.org>,
"Christian Brauner (Amutable)" <brauner@kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] docs: remove Assisted-by references
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2026 16:21:49 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <atjmnZl3tQ_1uaSJ@false> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <atggaWq0EU6Km8r0@mit.edu>
On Tue, Oct 20, 2026 at 10:54:40PM -0400, Theodore Tso wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2026 at 12:15:32AM -0500, Laurent Pinchart wrote:
> > I fully understand that many maintainers currently feel they're too
> > pressured to invest time in the next generation. We need to find
> > solutions to make that possible.
>
> One possibility is to create tools and/or procedure to amplify signals
> about which newcomers are most likely to become the next generation,
> as opposed to someone who is just sending drive-by patches.
>
> The reality is that the vast majority of first time patch submitters
> won't become part of the next generation. So if we are getting 10x
> the newcomers, if we can be more discerning about which newcomers we
> invest in, the project won't die, even if we are ignoring, 3x to 5x
> the number of newcomers.
>
> > This is something we really need to improve quickly. Over the past week
> > multiple active kernel developers asked me if I thought they needed to
> > find a job elsewhere, thinking maintainers will now ignore anything but
> > perfect patches and dismiss contributions from developers who don't use
> > LLMs. That's a wrong impression (at least I very much hope so, and you
> > clarified that you're not advocating for that), but it's a disastrous
> > impression that many people got from the maintainers summit and the
> > following mailing lists discussions.
>
> If someone is an active kernel developer, presumably they already have
> enough of reputation that they won't get ignored. The issue is really
> going to be newcomers who don't yet enough of a reputation, not
> "active kernel developres who are wondering if they need to find a job
> elsewhere".
>
> And if they have a job, meaning they are in the industry, hopefully
> their employer is willing and able to hire a more senior kernel
> developer with a reputation in the industry to help them out.
> Fortunately, certain companies like Oracle have graciously been
> releasing a lot of such talent on the market, so these people *are*
> available. :-)
Where's the job board for this. Or if you know of some developers that
want to come to a farm and work on RiscV-linux farm robots I can provide
food, housing, and whatever my experience is worth.
> A senior kernel developer will be able to help introduce more junior
> developers to the community, both online via e-mail and at conferences
> such as Plumbers. More importantly, the more senior kernel developer
> can help the more junior developer write cover letters which better
> motivate why a particular patch is important. Half the problem is
> that a lot of the "AI Slop" patches aren't particular important, and
> in some cases, the business case has been wildly exagerated.
>
> (For example, there was the patch which claimed to address a very high
> severity "one click exploit" bug --- but the exploit required (a)
> tricking someone to download a malicious file system image, and (b)
> running a fairly obscure "tune2fs -U random" command on said image,
> and (c) be stupid enough do it as root to justify the astronomical
> CVSS score. By calling this a "one click exploit" with an extremely
> high CVSS score, that engineer and their company has been forever
> tainted in my eyes, and you can *bet* that I'm going to take any
> patches from them far less seriously.)
>
> Anyway, all of this might mean that someone who has zero prior
> reputation, and doesn't have the $$$ to attend a conference, and who
> isn't able to get a job at a company where a more senior kernel
> engineer can introduce them to the community, and who can't get a
> position at a mentorship program like Outreachy or GSOC might have a
> much harder time to get a maintainer's attention. Yes, this will suck
> for some newcomers; but so long as we get enough new blood from other
> sources (such as new college grads working at a traditional Linux
> company), it doesn't follow that just because we aren't engaging with
> *every* *single* *newcomer* that it spells doom for the Linux kernel
> community.
>
> - Ted
Those newcomers need viable paths for employment, at least in the
current system. I think if AI companies want to maintain their sky-high
stock valuations, there will have to use some of that theoretical market
cap by actually committed to resolving and paying off technical debt.
What if we had a "pay-per-patch" model? Would this help or would it just
turn into a game where whomever has the most money gets their patches
reviewed?
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2026-10-21 16:21 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 71+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2026-10-09 8:31 Sasha Levin
2026-10-09 9:38 ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-09 10:09 ` Sasha Levin
2026-10-09 10:05 ` Krzysztof Kozlowski
2026-10-09 10:24 ` Greg KH
2026-10-09 15:20 ` Jonathan Corbet
2026-10-11 1:04 ` Steven Rostedt
2026-10-12 15:42 ` Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM)
2026-10-13 11:19 ` Jori Koolstra
2026-10-13 12:38 ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-13 12:50 ` Jori Koolstra
2026-10-13 13:01 ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-13 13:24 ` Ricardo B. Marlière (SUSE)
2026-10-13 12:49 ` Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM)
2026-10-13 17:16 ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-13 12:31 ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-13 12:59 ` Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM)
2026-10-13 13:04 ` Krzysztof Kozlowski
2026-10-13 13:07 ` Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM)
2026-10-13 13:12 ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-13 13:29 ` Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM)
2026-10-13 13:37 ` Jori Koolstra
2026-10-13 14:52 ` Kees Cook
2026-10-13 14:54 ` Jori Koolstra
2026-10-13 14:58 ` Jori Koolstra
2026-10-13 17:12 ` Kees Cook
2026-10-13 17:42 ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-13 19:25 ` Kees Cook
2026-10-13 20:16 ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-13 20:45 ` Linus Torvalds
2026-10-14 13:56 ` Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM)
2026-10-16 14:19 ` Matthew Brost
2026-10-17 17:42 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2026-10-19 17:41 ` lyude
2026-10-14 18:47 ` Kees Cook
2026-10-15 23:14 ` Jeremy Dean Clifton
2026-10-13 15:02 ` Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM)
2026-10-13 16:58 ` Kees Cook
2026-10-13 17:32 ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-16 16:14 ` Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM)
2026-10-20 21:15 ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-21 2:54 ` Theodore Tso
2026-10-21 16:21 ` Troy Benjegerdes [this message]
2026-10-14 3:23 ` Theodore Tso
2026-10-14 11:23 ` Mark Brown
2026-10-14 13:08 ` Jori Koolstra
2026-10-14 13:42 ` Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM)
2026-10-14 14:15 ` Mark Brown
2026-10-19 22:44 ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-20 4:28 ` Theodore Tso
2026-10-19 16:32 ` lyude
2026-10-21 16:07 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2026-10-19 22:24 ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-19 16:26 ` lyude
2026-10-16 18:26 ` Ihor Solodrai
2026-10-19 16:21 ` lyude
2026-10-13 4:24 ` Kees Cook
2026-10-13 5:56 ` Randy Dunlap
2026-10-13 6:18 ` Greg KH
2026-10-13 8:25 ` Kees Cook
2026-10-13 12:28 ` [PATCH] docs: remove Assisted-by reference Jori Koolstra
2026-10-13 12:55 ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-13 13:03 ` Jori Koolstra
2026-10-13 13:10 ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-13 13:20 ` Jori Koolstra
2026-10-13 13:55 ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-19 16:50 ` lyude
2026-10-13 15:18 ` Mark Brown
2026-10-13 17:07 ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-13 20:01 ` Shuah Khan
2026-10-19 16:15 ` lyude
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